radial deviation

[Greenmonsters]

Weight Transfer Question

I've found this thread enlighening and thank Hitter in particular for his unique perspective and approach.

I like the idea of teaching weight transfer as a continuous, flowing motion but am trying to understand a couple things. Am I correct in understanding that the first aggressive move (i.e., hip turn) happens after the weight transfer? Is back heel coming up as: a) front heel is coming down? or, b) after front heel has landed?

Also, how do you teach your hitters to adjust to a change up?

Regards - Greenmonsters

 

[softballphreak]

Bending at the knees first puts the weight on the heels/butt side; bending at the waist first puts the weight over the balls of the feet.

When speaking of backward bat movement during the separation phase (walking away from the bat) are we talking about the same movement that some people call wrapping?

I believe the front heel down and hip turn initiate at the same time with the hands (bat lag) slightly afterwards. Is that the correct movement?

Is it correct to load, then stride; or can the load, separation, stride be one movement?

 

[Mark H]

Scott and Mark
Bend at the waist first and soften the knees next in that sequence.

Yep.

A Kinesiologist explained it to me as sequential core loading. Unless you bend at the waist first and then soften the knees next you do not establish what the trainers call hip hinge angle.

Yep.

I would be interested in your thoughts on balance and how to teach it.

Different terminology but I agree as indicated above. I teach posture as described above. Without good posture/body position nothing else works well. I don't like the word balance for this but I don't think I have a problem with anything beyond your terminology which is not a big deal.

Extension is a teach and a feel, other wise they would never slap their back,

IME, those slapping the back have either been taught to do it or have emulated someone else doing it. I have no problem with fixing it being a teach. Just hasn't been my experience. Either way, I view the slap as a function of what came before. Good extension should be a function of powerful momentum.

Thanks Howard

A pleasure.

 

[ifubuildit]

Bending at the knees first puts the weight on the heels/butt side; bending at the waist first puts the weight over the balls of the feet.

When speaking of backward bat movement during the separation phase (walking away from the bat) are we talking about the same movement that some people call wrapping?
I believe the front heel down and hip turn initiate at the same time with the hands (bat lag) slightly afterwards. Is that the correct movement?

Is it correct to load, then stride; or can the load, separation, stride be one movement?

Negative movement is moving the hands back without major movement of the shoulders counter rotating. That counter rotation is what I think some refer to as wrapping the bat but in different parts of the country it could mean different things to any group of people.

 

[Hitter]

I've found this thread enlighening and thank Hitter in particular for his unique perspective and approach.

I like the idea of teaching weight transfer as a continuous, flowing motion but am trying to understand a couple things. Am I correct in understanding that the first aggressive move (i.e., hip turn) happens after the weight transfer? Is back heel coming up as: a) front heel is coming down? or, b) after front heel has landed?

Also, how do you teach your hitters to adjust to a change up?

Regards - Greenmonsters

Thank you however there a lot of peoples inputs that make this information sharing possible. I try to keep it as simple as possible as I teach kids, young adults and parents you may not have a clue.

If you think of the act of throwing it is a building of momentum forward and driving off the back leg and you never stop. However there was a shifting of the weight that made it happen.

For hitting we want them to think slow to load, soft to step, landing on the inside edge of their lead foot with the heel slightly off the ground. This allows for the weight to shift forward. Although it is possible to still allow the weight to shift by landing flat footed in my opinion it is not as efficient so I do not teach it. We loaded by doing a simple knee cock, turning the lead foot and knee in the direction of the first base dug out if it is an RH hitter. We do this at or about at the pitchers K position at 12 o'clock. We do not try to stop or pause and want the hitters to think they are flowing to the ball. By landing as described. We want to be at toe touch when the pitcher releases the ball and that move is based more on the individuals athleticism and eye hand coordination in my opinion. In my mind I want the hitters to feel a sequence of the body movements and that the feet went first, the hips next and during or at toe touch the hands went rearward or slightly back however the hands never stopped we just changed direction. Our weight continues forward because our front knee is flexed allowing the back leg knee to continue forward under us so to speak with the weight still shifting further inside the back leg. We teach them to think or feel when we decide to swing the elbows will move and the shoulders will start to turn as the heel is lowering or heel plant and the hips are turning. We then want them to think in terms it starts from the ground up. Allowing the elbows to work as a unit, while lead with the knob of the bat is inside the path of the ball and trying to allow for the proper tilt and turn to match the plane of the pitch and release the barrel of the bat to the ball with the wrists. The lead elbow being flexed and not straight and the back elbow being shaped like a bent L somewhat at contact and rotating the hips as needed depending on the pitch location (belly button pointed in the direction to hit the ball) and think to the ball and through the ball to extension with extension happening in what ever direction we hit the ball and finishing. Our tracking the ball begins by getting a good two eyed look and then at release we give our head a slight head start as the head can not move as fast as the eyes, so we move our head again as a (RH) so their nose is pointed in the direction about a third of the way from second base and then we minimize the head movement and maximize the eye movement into our hitting zone and keep our head down during contact as we are stronger with our head down.

Hope this helps...

Howard

 

[Hitter]

I've found this thread enlighening and thank Hitter in particular for his unique perspective and approach.

I like the idea of teaching weight transfer as a continuous, flowing motion but am trying to understand a couple things. Am I correct in understanding that the first aggressive move (i.e., hip turn) happens after the weight transfer? Is back heel coming up as: a) front heel is coming down? or, b) after front heel has landed?

Also, how do you teach your hitters to adjust to a change up?

Regards - Greenmonsters

GM

Try something with your daughter...put a concrete block on the outside edge of her back foot and have her swing. Look to see if her foot released from the ground and she came up all the on her toe or just slightly up towards the inside of the big toe area. Then look to see if the back leg looks like a bent L or is more straight driving into her front leg.

There is study being done to determine the efficiency of both methods. When the leg is more straight than flexed they are getting higher readings on the pressure plate readings as to force. When your daughter is in this position you should feel the calf muscle activated and the ham string. Use your finger to feel the activation. In the bent L you feel nothing in the calf or hamstring. This is why we use the block to get them to feel this. You will hear a difference in the sound of the bat on the ball!

Thanks Howard

 

[Chris O'Leary]

When the leg is more straight than flexed they are getting higher readings on the pressure plate readings as to force. When your daughter is in this position you should feel the calf muscle activated and the ham string. Use your finger to feel the activation. In the bent L you feel nothing in the calf or hamstring. This is why we use the block to get them to feel this. You will hear a difference in the sound of the bat on the ball!

So which is better, in your opinion?

 

[Mark H]

We do not try to stop or pause and want the hitters to think they are flowing to the ball.

As long as the front hip joint is quickly stopping, sure.

By landing as described. We want to be at toe touch when the pitcher releases the ball

Why? I keep seeing this written but I see most elite hitters who stride doing differently.

and that move is based more on the individuals athleticism and eye hand coordination in my opinion.

I think I hear you saying learning to dance with the pitcher is an individual thing?

 

[Mark H]

There is study being done to determine the efficiency of both methods.

Hmmm.

When the leg is more straight than flexed they are getting higher readings on the pressure plate readings as to force.

If that's out of order in the kinetic chain...I wouldn't assume higher readings were necessarily a good thing. I suggest putting elite hitters both male and female on the pressure plate checking the magnitude and timing of those readings. I suggest checking video of elite hitters.

Photo 10 of 16, Fastpitch I don't care what her rear knee is doing after contact. I'd suggest if it straightened before contact it would inhibit hip rotation. In any case hit this way. Or this way. MPEG4 8 of 16, Fastpitch

 

[ssarge]

Hitter: By landing as described. We want to be at toe touch when the pitcher releases the ball.

Mark: Why? I keep seeing this written but I see most elite hitters who stride doing differently.

That is my observation as well.

Howard: I'm also confused about the bend in the rear knee. First, I see VERY FEW elite hitters whose rear knee is not quite flexed. I don't think that can be marginalized. Second, I don't understand the importance of the pressure plate readings, and definitely need help to evaluate that data. I understand the concept of more force being created with the rear leg. It seems to me - and if I'm wrong here, please correct me - that this would be purely linear force. I think momentum into rotation is huge, please understand that. But I think there may be diminishing returns at some point. Push too hard, and the momentum isn't going to easily get transfered into rotation. It's just going to be a linear force / lunge. Or so it seems to me.

Regards,

Scott