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Jun 8, 2016
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Last fall I agreed to help a startup 10U team with their pitching, One of the players was the sister of a girl I was working with. At the first practice the coach asked 'who wants to pitch'? Not exactly the situation I was anticipating. Nine of the the thirteen players raised their hand. I took them three at a time, gave each girl a pile of balls and told them to pitch against a nearby tennis court fence from about 10 ft away. With no target and no instruction they all bowled (with an arm circle of course).
Interesting. You think it would be different if you lined them up and told them to just throw it as far as they could? Probably not.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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If you want to see what pitchers do 'naturally' you need to spend time where it all begins, 8, 10 and 12U rec ball. I started in rec and have kept an eye on the local rec programs for decades and have rerely seen any naturally occurring IR action (2 girls in 20+ years). "Bowling" is what occurs naturally, not IR.
You quoted me here, I was just posted what the other guys said.

And for whatever it's worth, I spend AMPLE time with 8,9, 10u pitchers duing my weekly schedule!!!!
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Thanks Sluggers. I don't think I'm yet qualified to work with players past 12u, but I'm starting to teach a few students this summer. I've been studying how to coach pitching since March 2016.

@Billhouse the pitcher daughter of a coached I've coached against several times since 8u and I consider a friend is taking his daughter down to SoCal to work with Jason for close to the last 18 months, at least. So I have looked at his website a couple times.
As I think I posted earlier, I have known Jason for about 25-30 years. At this point, its hard to keep track. He was a pitcher in his teenage years and into his adulthood. Not so long ago, I told him that I see a lot of my younger self in him with his hot takes on things, and willingness to mix it up verbally with people online. And now, he's doing a lot of international gigs with softball bodies around the globe, the way I used to. I actually sent him a friendly note telling him of the pitfalls I encountered doing all of this: spending time away from home, missing milestones in my son's life (eventually going through a divorce), etc. Most of the trouble I could directly attribute to spending 4 days a week in hotels/airports going coast to coast. But, he assured me he has that covered and his spouse is very supportive. Then again... so was mine until she wasn't!! lol. I just told him there's no point in being the richest man in the cemetery... slow down! Based on all the traveling I see he's still doing, I'm glad I was a good influence. ha ha.

I truly have no idea what all he's teaching, but I know it's not H/E mechanics and that's the main thing for me.
 
Jan 22, 2011
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Bill,

I told the pitching coach of the player from the Portland area that I suggested Jason when her parents asked me if I had any suggestions for her to work with when she spends the last two weeks of July in So Cal. The coach said that she basically agreed with what he taught, except for a couple little things, so didn't think he could cause any issues. I don't see anything that jumps out at me when I look at video on his website.

I think he is in the Bay Area occasionally, will have check with my buddy and see if I can observe a lesson.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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For an absolute beginner I have them throw from a “sideways” position. This eliminates HE from the get go. Overhand throws same way—sideways. Across the body.

For both overhand and underhand, throwing a football brings better understanding sooner.
 
Aug 21, 2008
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For both overhand and underhand, throwing a football brings better understanding sooner.
I do not recommend or encourage throwing a football underhand. Personally I think this leads to bullet spin pitches, which is a similar action by the wrist when making a football have a spiral underhand. Personally I don't see any benefit and see a lot of potential drawbacks.
 

JOHNN

Just a dad of 3 girls
Aug 5, 2019
375
43
South Louisiana
Full disclosure pt. 2: I've known Jason Iuli-Kinsey for 25-30 years. He was a good pitcher and did pitch for some ok teams from Utah to Illinois. But it's not exactly a secret that he believes in the need to have been a pitcher to be a PC. I'm not sure he thinks all pitchers automatically make great coaches but, he's voiced his opinion via social media before about pitching coaches who haven't pitched before. I was curious to know how many on here had heard of him before, primarily for this reason and his belief about needing to have been a pitcher to be a PC. Regardless of that philosophy, he's really building himself a brand with his company Powerhouse Mechanics. He seems to be traveling around and putting flags up all over the country, similar to Mr. Tincher. I have no idea what all or anything special Jason teaches, but with his popularity rising nationwide I suspect he'll be a name we hear going forward.
Do you think that he possibly has the mindset “you had to have pitched” bc there seems to be so many “pitching coaches” out there these days as compared to years ago when it wasnt such a big business? I say that bc Tincher also has the same belief in regards to being one of their certified coaches. I COMPLETELY understand being selective so that it doesnt water down their brand and business model, but at the same time we all know there are some really good pitching coaches out there that didnt pitch.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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I do not recommend or encourage throwing a football underhand. Personally I think this leads to bullet spin pitches, which is a similar action by the wrist when making a football have a spiral underhand. Personally I don't see any benefit and see a lot of potential drawbacks.
I only use the football briefly for introducing pitching. Although I have read that it can be beneficial for screw or maybe even rise. I also use it for strengthening.

What are some of the other drawbacks?
 
Jan 6, 2018
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Do you think that he possibly has the mindset “you had to have pitched” bc there seems to be so many “pitching coaches” out there these days as compared to years ago when it wasnt such a big business? I say that bc Tincher also has the same belief in regards to being one of their certified coaches. I COMPLETELY understand being selective so that it doesnt water down their brand and business model, but at the same time we all know there are some really good pitching coaches out there that didnt pitch.
Are there good pitching coaches who never pitched? Tons. Like himself, Denny Tincher!
 
Aug 21, 2008
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Are there good pitching coaches who never pitched? Tons. Like himself, Denny Tincher!
Do you think that he possibly has the mindset “you had to have pitched” bc there seems to be so many “pitching coaches” out there these days as compared to years ago when it wasnt such a big business? I say that bc Tincher also has the same belief in regards to being one of their certified coaches. I COMPLETELY understand being selective so that it doesnt water down their brand and business model, but at the same time we all know there are some really good pitching coaches out there that didnt pitch.
I don't know Mr. Tincher so I can't speak to his coaching, his pitching knowledge or anything of the sort. He certainly has built a national brand and has flags planted in a lot of places but, personally I can't speak a lot about what he teaches. I don't want to put words into Jason's mouth, he's certainly capable of telling anyone his own thoughts but I have read Jason's comments before about non-pitcher coaches.
I think we all know that being a great player doesn't make someone a great coach, Lord knows there's plenty of examples of that. But, I also don't know of any other sports where someone can have zero experience playing that becomes a coach. Keeping it close to home, my son is a pretty good swimmer. But I don't think that qualifies me to be a swim coach, no matter how many competitions I've been at watching him. Baseball, basketball, football, those guys pretty much all played the game, even if it's sandlot or little league or YMCA hoops. Some sports might be a little different since there's more X's and O's involved.

The hard part is, and it's probably very confusing to parents of young pitchers, having a well known pitcher, even an Olympic pitcher who still teaches things that are flat out wrong. And yes, I do believe in right or wrong in terms of how our bodies are designed to move. Not necessarily right/wrong on strategy or philosophy. Most aren't educated or savvy enough to look at someone like that and say "Wait, that's not what you just did when you threw the ball!!!" They pay the $200 to take pictures with her and her gold medals. Yes, I'm jealous of that. And there are top quality pitchers who's fathers are now "Known" coaches... because they had a kid who was a good pitcher?? I realize those dad's probably spent hours on the buckets and at lessons, they are probably just regurgitating what they heard 10 years ago when their kid was learning. I get that. Again though, I go back to my own kid, despite knowing how to swim and him being a good swimmer (Olympic level) I am not a swim coach. Nor would I pretend to be. And keeping it close to home again, my father who played fastpitch since I was old enough to go to the games, never pretended he was a pitcher or taught me how to pitch. He caught for me in the yard, until he couldn't anymore. But he never took credit for me.

I've said it publically many times and will continue to do so, I wish men like Mr. Tincher would step onto the field and try pitching in a game. I don't mean a USA tryout, just a beer league or a 55 yrs and over tournament (or whatever he qualifies for). And I say that to ALL the parents of the kids I work with too!!! Lest anyone think I'm picking on Mr Tincher or anyone else. The dad's that we see screaming and yelling when their kid swings at a riseball over her head, yet he's a famous "hitting coach"... go step in the box yourself!! It's funny how they avoid that. It would change a bit about their coaching for sure. A lot of things sound great in theory but don't actually work in games.

I think in time Jason will learn the balance between the 2. I doubt he believes all pitchers make great coaches and in time he'll figure out some do a good job despite their own experience.
 

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