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Controversial pitching coach quote

Aug 21, 2008
1,387
113
I came across this on Facebook yesterday and thought I'd post it here for you guys. The 'author' is Jason Iuli-Kinsey of San Diego. Jason pitched fastpitch softball from his teens and well into his 30's, he did pitch in the "major" division of men's fastpitch (which is the top "classification") The last 2 or 3 days he's been making some very interesting, thought provoking statements on Facebook about pitching coaching. I've known Jason for 20+ years, we are friendly but not "Friends" we don't send each other Xmas cards or anything. But, he's got a big legion of followers in CA. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this or his opinions, just wanted to share and read you discussion.

Image may contain: text that says 'The 4 things we need to stop trying to teach... 1) INTERNAL ROATATION 2) FOREARM FIRE 3) BRUSH CONTACT 4) FOLLOW THROUGHS PowerhouseMechanics'


Hear me out. I am not saying these things do not exist. What I am saying is, these things are naturally occurring movements within the pitching motion. Teaching pitchers to intentionally create these movements are arbitrary and very confusing. ⠀

Why should we stop teaching I.R? ⠀
First of all, the term in itself is confusing. I don't know why we make it so complicated. I.R, is simply how the joint rotates open and closed, but I digress..IR is one of the most natural things the arm will create. When the arm transfers from back to down, the shoulder joint will naturally open itself. Watching all of these videos of kids trying to "create" IR is causing them to over rotate. Not only are they not able to get back behind the ball on the closure of the joint, its almost impossible to create cuts.⠀

Why should we stop teaching "brush contact"?⠀
Brush contact is a reaction that is a result of how we pull from an open shoulder joint. When the shoulder joint is open, it will pull the shoulders back, placing the elbow behind the ribs. When pulling down the arm, the elbow is already in position to make contact with the hip. When the elbow makes contact with the hip, it will naturally trigger the shoulder joint too close. Too many kids are forcefully driving their elbows into the sides of their body and injuring themselves.⠀

Why should we stop teaching "Forearm Fire"? ⠀
The forearm is activated because the fingers are pulling into the wrist. By not putting attention into the fingers, and putting focus on the contraction of the forearm, creates peeling or rolling the ball off their fingers. Why would we teach kids to let the ball roll off of the fingers? Use the fingers to drive energy through the ball. ⠀

Why should we stop teaching follow throughs? ⠀
This is how "Hello Elbow" started. Pitchers were taught to "intentionally" create a follow through, but follow throughs are not intentional. Follow throughs, are a direct result of how we use the forearm. By teaching kids to intentionally follow through, it also teaches them to bypass the forearm and substitute a bicep pull or even worse, to just push the ball. ⠀

STAY FOCUSED ON MOTIONS THAT ARE INTENTIONAL
 
Nov 8, 2018
682
63
I came across this on Facebook yesterday and thought I'd post it here for you guys. The 'author' is Jason Iuli-Kinsey of San Diego. Jason pitched fastpitch softball from his teens and well into his 30's, he did pitch in the "major" division of men's fastpitch (which is the top "classification") The last 2 or 3 days he's been making some very interesting, thought provoking statements on Facebook about pitching coaching. I've known Jason for 20+ years, we are friendly but not "Friends" we don't send each other Xmas cards or anything. But, he's got a big legion of followers in CA. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this or his opinions, just wanted to share and read you discussion.

Image may contain: text that says 'The 4 things we need to stop trying to teach... 1) INTERNAL ROATATION 2) FOREARM FIRE 3) BRUSH CONTACT 4) FOLLOW THROUGHS PowerhouseMechanics''The 4 things we need to stop trying to teach... 1) INTERNAL ROATATION 2) FOREARM FIRE 3) BRUSH CONTACT 4) FOLLOW THROUGHS PowerhouseMechanics'


Hear me out. I am not saying these things do not exist. What I am saying is, these things are naturally occurring movements within the pitching motion. Teaching pitchers to intentionally create these movements are arbitrary and very confusing. ⠀

Why should we stop teaching I.R? ⠀
First of all, the term in itself is confusing. I don't know why we make it so complicated. I.R, is simply how the joint rotates open and closed, but I digress..IR is one of the most natural things the arm will create. When the arm transfers from back to down, the shoulder joint will naturally open itself. Watching all of these videos of kids trying to "create" IR is causing them to over rotate. Not only are they not able to get back behind the ball on the closure of the joint, its almost impossible to create cuts.⠀

Why should we stop teaching "brush contact"?⠀
Brush contact is a reaction that is a result of how we pull from an open shoulder joint. When the shoulder joint is open, it will pull the shoulders back, placing the elbow behind the ribs. When pulling down the arm, the elbow is already in position to make contact with the hip. When the elbow makes contact with the hip, it will naturally trigger the shoulder joint too close. Too many kids are forcefully driving their elbows into the sides of their body and injuring themselves.⠀

Why should we stop teaching "Forearm Fire"? ⠀
The forearm is activated because the fingers are pulling into the wrist. By not putting attention into the fingers, and putting focus on the contraction of the forearm, creates peeling or rolling the ball off their fingers. Why would we teach kids to let the ball roll off of the fingers? Use the fingers to drive energy through the ball. ⠀

Why should we stop teaching follow throughs? ⠀
This is how "Hello Elbow" started. Pitchers were taught to "intentionally" create a follow through, but follow throughs are not intentional. Follow throughs, are a direct result of how we use the forearm. By teaching kids to intentionally follow through, it also teaches them to bypass the forearm and substitute a bicep pull or even worse, to just push the ball. ⠀

STAY FOCUSED ON MOTIONS THAT ARE INTENTIONAL
Great read. The way I understand him is he doesn’t disagree with what is occuring as much as he is disagreeing with teaching a forced movement which he considers natural or a product of proper mechanics.
Ok. I can live with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
The forearm is activated because the fingers are pulling into the wrist. By not putting attention into the fingers, and putting focus on the contraction of the forearm, creates peeling or rolling the ball off their fingers. Why would we teach kids to let the ball roll off of the fingers? Use the fingers to drive energy through the ball.

this was my lightbulb paragraph.
thanks for sharing Bill
 
Jan 13, 2020
1,225
113
I agree to some extent, over teaching movements can result in worse movements rather than natural movements. But the question is: What do you teach? How do you teach? How to you get students to understand?
Posture creating position?
 
May 17, 2012
2,086
63
I came across this on Facebook yesterday and thought I'd post it here for you guys. The 'author' is Jason Iuli-Kinsey of San Diego. Jason pitched fastpitch softball from his teens and well into his 30's, he did pitch in the "major" division of men's fastpitch (which is the top "classification") The last 2 or 3 days he's been making some very interesting, thought provoking statements on Facebook about pitching coaching. I've known Jason for 20+ years, we are friendly but not "Friends" we don't send each other Xmas cards or anything. But, he's got a big legion of followers in CA. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this or his opinions, just wanted to share and read you discussion.

Image may contain: text that says 'The 4 things we need to stop trying to teach... 1) INTERNAL ROATATION 2) FOREARM FIRE 3) BRUSH CONTACT 4) FOLLOW THROUGHS PowerhouseMechanics''The 4 things we need to stop trying to teach... 1) INTERNAL ROATATION 2) FOREARM FIRE 3) BRUSH CONTACT 4) FOLLOW THROUGHS PowerhouseMechanics'
Hear me out. I am not saying these things do not exist. What I am saying is, these things are naturally occurring movements within the pitching motion. Teaching pitchers to intentionally create these movements are arbitrary and very confusing. ⠀

Why should we stop teaching I.R? ⠀
First of all, the term in itself is confusing. I don't know why we make it so complicated. I.R, is simply how the joint rotates open and closed, but I digress..IR is one of the most natural things the arm will create. When the arm transfers from back to down, the shoulder joint will naturally open itself. Watching all of these videos of kids trying to "create" IR is causing them to over rotate. Not only are they not able to get back behind the ball on the closure of the joint, its almost impossible to create cuts.⠀

Why should we stop teaching "brush contact"?⠀
Brush contact is a reaction that is a result of how we pull from an open shoulder joint. When the shoulder joint is open, it will pull the shoulders back, placing the elbow behind the ribs. When pulling down the arm, the elbow is already in position to make contact with the hip. When the elbow makes contact with the hip, it will naturally trigger the shoulder joint too close. Too many kids are forcefully driving their elbows into the sides of their body and injuring themselves.⠀

Why should we stop teaching "Forearm Fire"? ⠀
The forearm is activated because the fingers are pulling into the wrist. By not putting attention into the fingers, and putting focus on the contraction of the forearm, creates peeling or rolling the ball off their fingers. Why would we teach kids to let the ball roll off of the fingers? Use the fingers to drive energy through the ball. ⠀

Why should we stop teaching follow throughs? ⠀
This is how "Hello Elbow" started. Pitchers were taught to "intentionally" create a follow through, but follow throughs are not intentional. Follow throughs, are a direct result of how we use the forearm. By teaching kids to intentionally follow through, it also teaches them to bypass the forearm and substitute a bicep pull or even worse, to just push the ball. ⠀

STAY FOCUSED ON MOTIONS THAT ARE INTENTIONAL
It's a hasty generalization combined with a straw-man argument. In the big picture of softball pitching the distinction is irrelevant. There are so many pitching coaches that don't even understand the basics of how to teach someone to throw underhand. Trying to take it up a level by "not teaching" internal rotation or brush contact is just mental masturbation.
 
May 20, 2016
337
63
Not sure what he's trying to get across. Seems like it's all "this is how you should move anyways so no point in teaching it".

As per the second post it's just as true the other way around. Lot of athletes are so naturally gifted they really don't understand the mechanics behind it. Have heard some say some head scratching things.
 

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