radial deviation

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Oct 29, 2008
166
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The scientific explanations for what we see in videos of whose interpretation is best has been viewed by many to be is the glass half empty or half full and then a lot of opinions as not everyone sees what the other person claims is reality or fact just because it is on video. Some athletes can not even articulate well enough to explain what or how they do it well alone teach it and are successful at their craft. I do not think you have to understand how to build a nuclear weapon or understand Einstein’s theory of relativity to use it. Where is the button, when do I push it and do I understand the power of what is about to happen?

Hitter:

1000% agree. Tibbets didn't understand anything other than how to fly the Enola Gay. And elite hitters as a rule understand VERY little about how the forces work in the swing.

Both are appropriate.

Tom isn't writing to hitters; he doesn't work with hitters. I have no actual idea WHY he writes, since he has stated in an exchange with Mark in the past that none of this matters, because no one reads it anyway.

But I assume Tom is writing to the coach or instructor.

In fact, that is who I write for on occasion, but I also write to dads whose kids are learning to hit.


The guy who designed the training for Tibbets to fly the Enola Gay DOES need to understand the forces in play. He doesn't necessarily have to explain them to Tibbets (though I suspect most pilots understand those forces, at least intuitively). But to get Tibbots to a point over Hiroshima where he can launch his bomb, someone had to design a training course to prepare him. And that person clearly had to understand some pretty technical things.

To get a hitter to where she can launch HER bomb (sorry, couldn't resist), SOMEONE needs to understand the forces in play to design HER training.

This is ESPECIALLY true in a sport like softball or baseball, where so much information is contradictory, and so much is just wrong.

Again, I differentiate between cues and reality. Any cue which works to tap into reality is great. And I listen to the cues which have been successful for people like yourself, who have worked with hitters. I pay no attention whatsoever to the cues offered by people who don't work with hitters.

I DO evaluate the INFORMATION offered by people, whether or not they work with hitters. And try to ascertain whether than information is credible, based on whether it is congruent with the physical principles of the universe, among other things. Where my own understanding is limited, I defer to the opinion of SMEs, such as physicists, kineseologists, etc.

If I bring any value at all to these discussions, I would imagine it is because I am sometimes able to distill these expert opinions into a format which is readable, understandable, and employable.

In my own work with hitters, I hope that I understand the forces in play well enough to know how to teach hitters. More importantly, I hope my understanding is adequate to know how to FIX hitters. Everyone goes bad at different times, and in different ways. How to fix whatever is wrong without breaking something else is where the rubber hits the road for an instructor. How to find a cue or illustration that works for the kid that nothing else is working for is also a challenge. We all have to come up with new and unique cues sometimes, because the ones we typically use aren't working for a specific kid, for whatever reason. Part of the challange of what we do.

My point is that when one has an understanding of the forces in play, it shapes the range of acceptable cues, and keeps guardrails in place.

Some instructors do this intuitively, even without a thourough understanding. That is based on experience, and working with hundreds of hitters. There are casualties for all instructirs during our learning curve, however. I've had them, for sure. Too many. I'd like to help instructors have a shorter learning curve.

Most of all, I write for the dad who faces a ridiculous challenge. He will NOT have time / interest in distilling the technical information. He is NOT interested in an amalgamation of information taken from dozens of sources and interwoven together as someone's intellectual exercise. That dad is interested in what will work to make Suzy hit better next Saturday and next year. Given the horrible limits of the written word, lack of visual evidence and feedback, and the frustrations of a post / repost (rather than realtime conversation) environment, I believe it is absolutely incumbent on someone offering advice to do his best to base that on sound physical principles.

The alternative being guesswork, and what the individual writing "feels." Or what he has heard others "feel." I DO NOT believe "feel" is universal. I DO NOT believe Suzy feels what Ethier (for example) does. And so I limit those kinds of references (although I occasionally do use them when posting).

In person with a hitter, I talk about feel a lot, because she can give me feedback. I can see the results imnmediately. We can converse in real time, and I observe what works, what doesn't. I've had a hitter tell me she felt the top hand was dominating, and a half hour later, had a hitter telll me she felt the bottom hand was dominating. Their swings were both effective, and in fact, looked virtually identical - even on video. I think almost anyone who works with hitters would have similar experience. Those who don't won't get it, and will continue to talk about universal patterns and universl mechanics, etc. In my experience, people feel differently.

Just like the two hitters referenced above, who FELT dramatically different things. As an instructor, I want to tap into the feelings. But I can't assume them for any one kid.

NO way to ascertain any of that while posting. Offering cues can help, and I have done it. Obviously, it is a crap shoot. However, if you can offer a dad a simple approach based on reality (the physical principles governing the universe and our bodies), and then suggest some guardrails, I think the dad has a chance. Which means the kid does, too.

My $.02, probably worth less than that. But for me, this is NOT a theoretical exercise. I'd like to help those dads out there, because people came alongside of me when I was learning this. And it helped, and my daughter has done OK, and so have oher kids I've had the privilege to work with as I became more and more involved in instructing hitters. I'd like to do the same for others.

Best regards,

Scott
 
Oct 29, 2008
166
0
Thanks, guys, for the kind words.

Mark is one of the guys who first came along side me. Maybe 7 years ago now. He was posting on eTeamZ about stuff I found heretical. It did NOT dovetail with my "conventional" thinking. Stuff that is absolutely mainstream in softball hitting today, Mark was talking about - almost as a pariah - years ago. I sent him an email with about 10 questions, and he responded back, in detail, on a Staurday morning. Gave me a LOT to think about, and he has been a huge influencer for me. And has always been willing to help, spend his time, to critique, to praise. When I talk about giving back because of others who gave to me, Mark is who I am most thinking about. Many others have been there, but his is the model I want to emulate.

Regards,

Scott
 
Oct 29, 2008
166
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Mechanics that accelerate the bat rearward produces [sic] a much higher load to shoulder rotation than a static bat. Therefore, the angular rate of hip rotation will be greater during the initiation phase than shoulder rotation.

Well, OK, if it's written down, it must be true.

I think the rate of hip rotation will be greater than the rate of shoulder rotation during the initiation phase without doing ANYTHING. Because the shoulders are wider than the hips, and that creates a greater radius of gyration for the shoulders.
 
Jan 14, 2009
1,589
0
Atlanta, Georgia
Tom, I wish this early rearward bat movement stuff had clicked with me two years ago. When I look at clips of hitters like Bonds, Pujols, and Williams now, I just shake my head. I can't believe I missed it. When it finally clicked with me, I worked it into my swing, at which point I had one of those "ah ha" moments. Once you do it, the benefits become crystal clear. I tried it against live pitching and it felt really good.

I was surprised and skeptical at first by Mankin's belief that the early rearward bat movement fixed other common issues such as bat drag, poor connection and lack of separation. After working with my daughter I'm now a believer. I was able to get her to duplicate the movement off of a tee within minutes. What amazed me was how consistent the position of the back forearm was as it turned the corner. You always get that good "V" in the back arm or as some would say "bicep to forearm pinch".
 

Hitter

Banned
Dec 6, 2009
651
0
Well, OK, if it's written down, it must be true.

I think the rate of hip rotation will be greater than the rate of shoulder rotation during the initiation phase without doing ANYTHING. Because the shoulders are wider than the hips, and that creates a greater radius of gyration for the shoulders.

Scott

In my opinion the poster child for flowing to the ball and who makes it look effortless is Crystl Bustos. The side view clip of her 308.5 foot shot on an inside pitch that was 8 to 10 inches inside during the 2004 Gold Medal game. Her hands are a little low however she was adjusting and she had baited Harding as previously she hit an outside pitch about 235 feet that was 8 to 10 inches off the plate. She lands on the inside edge of her lead foot with a flexed front knee allowing her weight to shift and then look at when she starts her back elbow to move that the fist and elbow stay stacked over each other or what we term staying strong on the backside. She teaches the knob of the bat leads the elbows. The main difference in her load verses what she teaches is that she sits, sinks, squats so the weight goes inside her back leg at toe touch verses a deliberate shift or cocking of the front knee or a negative move and that takes a little more athleticism to do and a knee cock is easy.

The flexing of the lead leg knee will for the most part be a huge improvement especially for the females as weight shift does not come natural for them as their knee does not fire just before landing like a male. The next power gain is separation as they usually do not go far enough rearward to make any difference. Look at how they throw and forget for the moment their mechanics to actually throw. Look at what they do not do and that is generate enough momentum and weight shift for the back leg to even release from the ground forward. In my opinion teaching them how to throw generates their ability to understand weight shift. My research shows me most girls throw between 45 and 55 MPH unless they have had a specific throwing technique taught to them. We have seen gains of 5 to 10 MPH and higher when they are taught to use their legs and not throw with their upper bodies. This is why we stress balance first and throwing second at our clinics. It is too funny to hear a parent say, "My daughter knows how to throw and this is a waste of time!" After we are done they change their mind.

By nature of design, the hips being wider, the spine being much more erect, the ham string to quad ratio not being in balance like a male, the Q angle from the knee to the hip being greater and their ACL is a disaster waiting to happen! This combined with the notch where the ACL passes through is narrower in a female. The design was for child bearing HOWEVER they can be taught how to do it and that is the point, it should not hurt to throw a ball and we can reduce their ACL related injuries by 41% if we show them how to warm up, land and jump correctly! We need to make sure they know how to balance and land and shift their weight before we ask them to try a more ballistic movement that could result in a ACL problem.

Please review the Santa Monica Sports Medicine and a link to help may be Santa Monica Orthopaedic and Sports Medicine Group . Their menu has all the links to the center for disease control and how they did the study and the PEP program can even be down loaded free. Also Cincinnati Children's Hospital Sports Med has released research on the ACL issues with women in sports and some of my kids have been there and worked with Jensen Brent CT and he participated in the study.

The girls can do these movements however with out the proper training they are an accident waiting to happen in my opinion...the sad part is it will happen when they are 20 to 24 years old after they have worked so hard to get there.
 
Oct 29, 2008
166
0
Hitter:

I know you are involved with Bustos, and I think that is great. She is a phenomenal hitter.

I will review the links, and appreciate you pointing them out to me.


I hope you will permit me a question. There is a school of thought out there, to which I BELIEVE I subscribe. The thought is that evaluating the absolutely exceptional (to the point of being unique) athlete is of interest, but real value is gained in evaluating the non-exceptionally gifted but nontheless top-producing athlete.

Bustos has a giftedness and size-and-strength package that make her unique (or very close to it). When she hits a ball 300 feet, it is impressive. When a 5' 8", 140 lb, 18 YO girl hits a ball 275 feet, that seems really impressive, too. And I've seen that many times, as I'm sure you have. And so the question is which hitter is of more value to study?

I recognize you might well have a bias in this specific question, and that is more than understandable. But in general, what are your thoughts about this? Is it more valuable to study the athlete whose giftedness and strength are undeniably superior, or is it more valuable to study someone with more moderate giftedness, size, and strength who has attained great success?

Thanks,

Scott
 

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