radial deviation

[Hitter]

I'm skeptical about the claim above.

The pink dot is the sweet spot.

This was a direct quote from the article from GQ. Possibly by reading the article it would make more sense.

When we do this at my house I have two 36 by 74 inch mirrors and there is a string with two golf ball size whiffle balls on it. On the mirrors I have two attachment points and used epoxy to secure it at an angle on the mirrors itself. The bat has two colors of electrical tape to show the sweet spot on the bat as a visual. Home plate is under the string and as they swing slowly the can see them self in the mirrors and see what their bat angle position is and how it changes as they progress, how the shoulders are moving and where the bat head is or is not based on what they are doing. When the end of the bat gets in the zone we think if you can foul it the bat is in the zone and you are still in the game. Now how long it stays perfectly in the zone in our case is not relevant as we are in the first stages of what do you mean by hands inside the ball verses what they have been taught, hands to the ball or throw the bat head at the ball has to be dealt with. Next is when does the bat exit the zone where we could no longer foul the ball and we feel that is important also.

Have you ever compared which MLB player keeps the bat in the big zone longer? From a teaching stand point the kids understand it as we also show chopping down on the ball and swinging level does not keep the bat in the zone as long and lessens our opportunity to hit the ball.

Thanks Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

info on bat adjusted for longer contact zone was first and best explained by Williams, SCIENCE OF HITTING. What lengthens the zone is spatially early quick acceleration. this produces solid/square/lined up contact for hard hit fair ball when batspeed is high. not spatially late acceleration or deceleration the reacceleration.

For the Pujols/high level/MLB pattern, motionanalysis measures a typical expected range of connection/summation/addition from link to link (Cheetham's kinematic mitionanalysis method as used by Zig Zigler:

"During this first phase of the swing the forward swing there is an expected angular speed gain (progressive speed gain) of approximately 200 degrees per second from the hips to the upper torso, as the hips rotate and peak to a speed of 550 d/sec, and upper torso rotates and peaks milliseconds later at a speed of 750 d/sec. There is an additional speed gain of approximately 250 d/sec from the upper torso to the arms (which reach a speed of 1000 d/sec milliseconds after the upper torso). This is followed by a significantly higher gain of 1000 d/sec from the arms to the bat as the bat releases at a speed of over 2000 degrees per second. Good athlete = 550>750>1000=2000 degrees per second (rotational bat speed)".

Contrast this to typical low level swing where the "math" is different:

"This is an example of a poor athletic sequence (but can still be successful if the choose the right pitches).... If an athlete has gains that are higher in the early phases, the arms to bat gain is signicifantly lower (Example: 300, 300, 500 (typically looks like hips=600, Upper torso= 900, Arms=1200, Bat=1700) this would indicate a power leak or lack of appropriate pacing through the swing. (Like a 400 meter runner who runs the first 100 meters in 9.9 seconds and finishes in 50 seconds) the pace or rythm/timing is off and causes a loss of energy at the finish."

"Most of the athletes we have tested had a significantly higher bat speed shortly after contact. This was related to the wrist roll, which occurred after the bat reached an initial peak in bat speed at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees before contact. At this point the force which generated the first peak in speed is no longer acting on the bat to carry it through the hitting zone. (Power was lost through earlier leaks). The athlete must now try to impart more force to the bat to get it moving again. At this point, it can only be done by rolling the wrists, prematurely."

 

[ifubuildit]

Dana if you choose to, video it and explain how you think it works so someone can shoot holes through it or about it like Swiss cheese. I think it breaks the feel of what I call transitioning of the bat to contact visual and with feeling it in the wrist and the arms...your call!

Did you try the grip we discussed yet?

Howard

Howard I tried the grip and so did several of my students. I can feel the difference with the wrist unhinging in the top hand with that grip. My students complain that they feel like they are going to loose the bat but you can hear the difference in the sound of the bat hitting the ball. It also for some reason seems to smooth out the swing. Just an observation on my part. Might be an optical illusion????

I am still in study on this one.

As for the video I have a particular student in mind for a video demonstration but she is currently on the shelf with a stress fracture in her foot. Maybe after the new year I can do something with the H -bat and can post it on Youtube.

Dana.

 

[ifubuildit]

Lets try and simplify the process. If the hips initiate the movement of the hands from the load position along with the hinge angle at least moderately being performed and maintained just prior to contact you will see what bustos and puhols performs early in their swings. Despite what any of you think using the top hand in any way up to just prior to contact on the ball causes problems. I found this out the hard way a couple of years ago. Yes you can make contact and hit the ball hard occaisionally but your percentages are off from what I am discussing. I want my hitters to hit for power and average. I want them to have every advantage possible. When the top gets involved early it creates too many inconvenient angles at contact.

Agree totally

 

[Hitter]

Howard I tried the grip and so did several of my students. I can feel the difference with the wrist unhinging in the top hand with that grip. My students complain that they feel like they are going to loose the bat but you can hear the difference in the sound of the bat hitting the ball. It also for some reason seems to smooth out the swing. Just an observation on my part. Might be an optical illusion????

I am still in study on this one.

As for the video I have a particular student in mind for a video demonstration but she is currently on the shelf with a stress fracture in her foot. Maybe after the new year I can do something with the H -bat and can post it on Youtube.

Dana.

Thanks for trying it and the feed back. This is what CB uses and 99 percent of our kids now. The wrist rolling and back/ shoulder slapping has stopped and extension after contact is almost too simple now. Now I understand what Don was saying about the additional pine tar and you felt it and heard the difference.

Thanks Howard

 

[HittingGuru]

Bustos is calling this getting through in this video. It looks a lot like a push through extension to me what is the term others would describe it as.Softball Forum - softball hitting, softball pitching, coaching softball, softball drills, softball tips, and more. - Crystl Bustos on hitting - How to keep from rolling the wrist?

 

[Wellphyt]

Lets try and simplify the process. If the hips initiate the movement of the hands from the load position along with the hinge angle at least moderately being performed and maintained just prior to contact you will see what bustos and puhols performs early in their swings. Despite what any of you think using the top hand in any way up to just prior to contact on the ball causes problems. I found this out the hard way a couple of years ago. Yes you can make contact and hit the ball hard occaisionally but your percentages are off from what I am discussing. I want my hitters to hit for power and average. I want them to have every advantage possible. When the top gets involved early it creates too many inconvenient angles at contact.

Regarding the top hand, I already posted the "You've haven't seen my top hand" quote from Bonds.

Then there is this quote from Epstein:
"In the correct rotational swing, the top hand is your “power” source, while the lead arm (bottom hand) is your swing “guide.”

Then of course there is the Chicago White Sox Academy guy in the youtube clip, talking about how the hands work early in the swing.

Two former MLB players and a MLB hitting instructor all talking about using the hands early in the swing...Hmmm.

Ah, never mind, surely they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[tom.guerry]

note in the Bustos youtube at the 12 sec mark the cue: elbows knob barrell.

this is forearm twist and elbow/triangle rotation and shoulder tilt, and then palmup extension of MLB pattern.

The only part of that that is hard to see is the forearm twist/swivel.

 

[ssarge]

Regarding the top hand, I already posted the "You've haven't seen my top hand" quote from Bonds.

Then there is this quote from Epstein:
"In the correct rotational swing, the top hand is your “power” source, while the lead arm (bottom hand) is your swing “guide.”

Then of course there is the Chicago White Sox Academy guy in the youtube clip, talking about how the hands work early in the swing.

Two former MLB players and a MLB hitting instructor all talking about using the hands early in the swing...Hmmm.

I must be misreading your Epstein and Bonds quotes. I see nothing in either of them that talks about the top hand EARLY in the swing. I also see nothing from a female hitter. The typical 18 YO female hitter having maybe 30-40% of the upper body strength of a male hitter.


As I think almost anyone would acknowledge, it is hard for ANY of us to describe what we do when we hit, and certainly people who have played at a high level are no different. Their descriptions are of interest only in how they support what video clearly shows they actually DO.

An example would be Bonds, who after coming back from the right knee injury late in his career talked about how he felt he was creating more power when he kept his right foot more closed. In an exchange on eTeamZ, Tom Guerry discounted that, saying Bonds was wrong, that wasn't really what he did / felt. Kind of looked like it was, but you get my point. Kind of a goose / gander deal.

Bonds was also an example when in a Spring Training conversation with Don Slaught, he told Don he was slumping because he wasn't hitting down through the ball to get backspin and lift it. Slaught replied to him that he (Bonds) NEVER hit down through the ball, and his swing plane was in fact ALWAYS up. Which of course is true. Bonds told Slaught he was insane, and said, "SURE I hit down, Don. Everybody hits down through the ball. You should know that." Don pulled out RVP and showed Bonds what his swing path really was, and Barry was amazed. That was about 550 HRs into a career most would term pretty good. Slaught later heard Bonds sidle up to A-Rod at the All Star Game BP session and say, "Alex, you realize you don't really hit down through the ball, right?"

Lots of credibility when a guy with 550 HRs says what his swing path looks like. Apparently. Hopefully, no one listened to him until AFTER his conversation with Slaught.


Slaught has told me in a phone conversation that MLB hitters really have very little understanding of what they actually do. 14 year player, developer of RVP, batting coach for a World Series Champion team. FWIW.

 

[RayR]

Thanks for trying it and the feed back. This is what CB uses and 99 percent of our kids now. The wrist rolling and back/ shoulder slapping has stopped and extension after contact is almost too simple now. Now I understand what Don was saying about the additional pine tar and you felt it and heard the difference.

Thanks Howard

That back slapping deal drives me nuts...