strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

[DonnieS]

Hal, my goal in coaching is to win the game, I could give a crap about the number of strikeouts. I know a coach whose goal is to set records, strikeout records, pitching records etc. He is not a team coach, he is coaching for his strikeout records, individual records, the main reason - the lead pitcher has been his student since she was a little girl - this will make him look good, which is the main goal. When people get hits off of her, he blames the defense, always has, tells the pitcher 'Hey, thats not your fault' very loudly so all the parents and players can hear. The other players understand completely that this means that the only kid he cares about out there is the pitcher.

I believe that pitchers should have a "get them out" mentality and that includes the "I'm better than you" attitude toward the batter - keep them intimidated. A 3 pitch inning is my favorite, because one, we are out of the inning, and two my pitcher is not going to wear out throwing 3 pitches plus her 5 warm ups per inning. That being said, I want her to get a strike the first pitch, to start off good, then get a second. Once she has the 0-2 count, its time to play. You know I have your book and you know that K and I have followed whats in your book - I think its the best book out there on pitching and I have a ton of them.

All that being said, not every pitcher is a Hal Skinner, Bill Hillhouse, Bobby Smith, Cat, Lisa, Jenny, etc. etc. and some of the smarter of us know that - so we work with what we got. When my 14 year old kid, pitching against one of the top gold teams in the country, comes up against the biggest and baddest hitter on that team, and this is a showcase, she is going after her. If this is a qualifier, runners on base, and we have somewhere to put her, we are going to strongly consider walking her. If my kid is pitching, she will fight me about it, but she will do it - because this is a team sport and she has 8 very strong kids around trained to do their job.

She has pitched on young teams where every popup is a 'hold your breath' type a deal and she has to get 5, 6, 7 outs per inning, but thats the exception, her regular travel team, has 8 girls on it who have been around her for many years and she trusts them. Not every team is like that so the pitching has to be managed differently.

 

[CoachFP]

Even the Bill Hillhouse's, Bobby Smith's etc. know that going for a strikeout every batter is a recipe for disaster. It is illogical and is like a hitter trying for a homerun every time at bat. Having confidence that you can get the batter out is the most important quality. But even then, there are times when you don't pitch to a certain batter that has your number or who is very hot at the plate. Pitching smart is what it is all about, not some macho attitude that I can strike you out. I would have a hard time listening to whatever else an instructor had to say if that was their mantra.

 

[batsics1]

The title of this thread is, “Strikeouts or putting the ball in play – the mental approach. The “mental approach” should be the emphasis. So, the question would more appropriately be, Should a pitcher throw pitches that a batter can put in play? I hope we all agree that the answer to that question would be, NO. There is a big difference between strategy and intent.

The intent of the pitcher should be to throw strikes – anything that is swung at and missed, not swung at and called or fouled off. Period, end of conversation. A pitcher needs to learn how to, and be able to, do this in the strike zone and out of the strike zone and in combination.

The strategy for how to sequence pitches for a given situation and/or batter is a different matter. I love 3 pitch innings, haven’t had many over the years, but have had a bunch of 4 pitch ones. But, I doubt there is any way to call pitches and/or throw pitches to produce such results.

I have read a number of comments about walking a batter if the situation calls for it – a strategic decision. My question is, how many times have you done this by putting her on base without pitching to her, where the rules allow it, or throwing four pitchouts? My guess is just this side of never.

Most of the time a pitcher throws four pitches out of the strike zone – a strategic decision. But, the intent of the pitcher can still be to throw strikes. It is just understood that those strikes will be out of the zone. If the batter is overly aggressive and/or fooled and is willing to swing at pitches out of the zone I doubt that there will be much disappointment if she strikes out instead of taking the walk you were offering.

The same is true of sequencing for a ground ball. The strategy is: if the batter puts the ball in play it should be a ground ball to the left side. The pitcher’s intent is still to throw strikes. Knowing the strategy tells her where to miss and what part of the zone to avoid. The strategy doesn’t preclude the pitcher from striking out the batter, it just favors a preferred secondary outcome. The pitcher can still be trying to strike out the batter she just knows she will not have all of her arsenal to do it with.

 

[DonnieS]

Even the Bill Hillhouse's, Bobby Smith's etc. know that going for a strikeout every batter is a recipe for disaster. It is illogical and is like a hitter trying for a homerun every time at bat. Having confidence that you can get the batter out is the most important quality. But even then, there are times when you don't pitch to a certain batter that has your number or who is very hot at the plate. Pitching smart is what it is all about, not some macho attitude that I can strike you out. I would have a hard time listening to whatever else an instructor had to say if that was their mantra.

Dont get me wrong, CoachFP, the pitchers I want have the mentality that Hal describes - but I still have to be the coach, Hal is the instructor.

 

[2bucketdad]

My youngest dd just turned 12 recently pitched in a game where a girl went yard, make that YYAAARRRDDD on her for the first time since she has been pitching, it was a good pitch a drop curve, that droped and curved, but may have been a little to far over the plate, and she watched it off the bat and all the way over the fence, and then looked at me like WTF??? I told her dont worry about it it was a good pitch she just got all of it be glad nobody was on base...the next time around in the batting order as the girl came up again I called time not knowing how my DD would react, I asked if she wanted to walk her, she said "No she got lucky last time, I'ma get her this time!" the game was a one hitter DD's team won 7 to 1 the one hit was the solo homer, the girl got sit down the next two times up...She an the other pitchers I work with are suposed to throw each pitch to the location I call it, to the best of there ablity...thats there job, if it gets hit and I wanted it to get hit they know or i tell them, and if it is the wrong pitch and gets hit hard, I let them know hey that was on me sorry...Just throw the pitches i call to the locations I call the best you can every pitch...

They may not strike everyone out, but they need to want to and believe they can!

 

[2bucketdad]

BTW Jimginias, where are you at in suffolk, I live in chesapeake and have a 14U DD on the Lady Crush, and a 12U on the Lady Aces...

 

[CoachFP]

You know this strikeout approach does fascinate me. As a coach and as a pitcher too, when playing another team, I would strategize how to get the hitters out in pregame or during the game discussions. These discussions are usually guaged at the hitter's strengths and weaknesses, what they like to hit, where they hit the ball etc. The catcher obviously is a part of those discussions. Never once did it occur to me to tell my pitcher, go after a strikeout on every hitter. It just doesn't fit into the strategy of the game. It is in effect not a strategy at all and can get your pitcher away from what they need to do to win the game.

 

[halskinner]

You know this strikeout approach does fascinate me. As a coach and as a pitcher too, when playing another team, I would strategize how to get the hitters out in pregame or during the game discussions. These discussions are usually guaged at the hitter's strengths and weaknesses, what they like to hit, where they hit the ball etc. The catcher obviously is a part of those discussions. Never once did it occur to me to tell my pitcher, go after a strikeout on every hitter. It just doesn't fit into the strategy of the game. It is in effect not a strategy at all and can get your pitcher away from what they need to do to win the game.

Coachfp,

Try this some time. At a tourney, make up your line up, then you and your other coaches go sit in the stands and watch. Let your team pick their base coaches from the players sitting the bench. See if your 'Teachings / training has sunk in or not.

When your catcher and pitcher are calling the pitches, I will bet they go for the strike outs.

Do you have enough confidence in them to let them do that? I have suggested that to coaches many times. I have seen them do that only a few times, however, each time they did, their teams performed very very well. The times that I watched that occur, the pitcher/ catcher battery seemed to be going for strike outs to me.

 

[CoachFP]

Coachfp,

Try this some time. At a tourney, make up your line up, then you and your other coaches go sit in the stands and watch. Let your team pick their base coaches from the players sitting the bench. See if your 'Teachings / training has sunk in or not.

When your catcher and pitcher are calling the pitches, I will bet they go for the strike outs.

Do you have enough confidence in them to let them do that? I have suggested that to coaches many times. I have seen them do that only a few times, however, each time they did, their teams performed very very well. The times that I watched that occur, the pitcher/ catcher battery seemed to be going for strike outs to me.

I believe in letting the catcher and pitcher work together and call their own game. The trouble with going for the strikeout is pitchers can get in a tendency to overthrow. I used to go by the motto, you can't strike someone out until you have two strikes on them. Some pitchers are trying to strike out hitters on the first and second pitch. Finally, a very good pitcher may strike out 10 hitters in a seven inning game. Unless it is a no hitter, at least 11 or more will hit the ball. The odds are in favor of someone hitting the ball. So you may as well pitch to get them to hit your pitch, not have them miss three pitches in an at bat.

 

[Cannonball]

Coach,

Totally get what you are saying and agree that your approach is sound “game management”. However, from my standpoint as a pitching coach I am faced with trying to produce pitcher’s who are marketable to college coaches. As a pitching coach and as a travel coach in the past dealing with college coaches trying to get my kids recruited, I learned that many college coaches, even at the D1 level do not know what they are looking at, especially when it comes to pitchers. Almost without exception what they want to see from a pitcher at an exposure tournament or ASA Nationals are K’s. The ground ball pitcher who gets 3 or 4 K’s and wins game after game just doesn’t impress, even though this is the kind of journeymen pitcher that also wins games in college at all levels. So, I as a pitching coach am faced with preparing my kids mentally and physically to strike people out, first and foremost, because this is what college coaches want to see. Is this the optimum game strategy ? No, but this is the reality of the environment if they want to capture a coach’s attention.

Steve

This post is outstanding! My dd pitches and is now 16. She had done well in both HS and travel ball. However, she averaged 7 strikeouts for both her freshman and sophomore years on our varsity. She has done close to the same in travel with 6 Ks per game avg. She is a dropball pitcher that can get up there in the low 60s. Her FB is 60 and her change is 40. Those were recently gunned at a college camp. Average to below average to be sure. We don't stress striking out hitters. We stress being a pitcher. To me, pitchers know how to set up hitters, identify those players who they will not allow to beat their team, pitch to location with all pitches and then step in the circle with a competitive spirit. In my dd's way of thinking, setting a hitter up and getting that groundball to 3rd is what pitching is all about.

However, Hal is right in his assertion that for many, it is all about the strikeout. Our travel coach is now working with my dd to get her K total up. She wants to pitch in college. That is not going to happen, in my opinion, unless she improves her K ratio. I believe that CoachFP also recognized in this discussion that Ks are what many, if not most, college coaches look for and so, regardless of the validity of whether they know what they are doing or not, that is their criteria.

Hal, I respect your posts on here and have read them for some time. I do disagree on the K aspect defining pitching. That's fine and who am I. I will say that I've coached 4 or 5 guys who have pitched in MLB. None of them were in love with the K. Instead, they learned how to pitch. Learned how to pitch, again, by knowing who you will not let beat you. Knowing how to pitch "backwards" is key in my opinion. In otherwords being able to throw the change in fastball counts. Being able to control the count to get the hitter out and then, being able to always spot pitches. BTW, I was asked recently on another site why I didn't think my dd would be able to throw at a D-I school. The answer is simple, at this time, again she is 16, she misses over the plate too much when she is behind in the count. When she improves on this, and again, she works hard, perhaps she will be able to.

BTW, to see my dd's entire recruitment video, which includes hitting, pitching, and fielding, please type in to YouTube:

Brianna Butler Softball Skills Video

Let me know what you guys think about her.