UMM.... Hillhouse take a look at this! Hello Elbow!?!

[Lance Steckler]

back when i played Modified F/P in Erie, it was all about drop balls, rise balls and bunch of different changes of speed. curves and screws got launched.

 

[Bullseye]

My beef is with USA softball, the governing body, who has done nothing to help the men's game.

Pent up anger in your venting comes across strong. While you've played at the top levels you seem displeased with how things turned out. Somewhere in there your involvement and the growth of softball went different directions. That's where it seems like you are pissed.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Pent up anger in your venting comes across strong. While you've played at the top levels you seem displeased with how things turned out. Somewhere in there your involvement and the growth of softball went different directions. That's where it seems like you are pissed.

 

[Bullseye]

Now before anyone gets mad at me, I am happy the sport does so well on TV. I am happy these ladies get the opportunities that they do. Having said that, I wish some recognition for the history of the game was known by more people. EVERYTHING we see to day was built on the backbone of men's fastpitch of yesteryear. USA softball does very little to help the men's game and it shows around the country. Aren't they supposed to be the governing body for both genders? Yes, I realize college is through the NCAA, but USA softball has a direct hand in it. And besides, it helped my rant here to just throw it in like I did. lol

"Everything we see to day was built on the backbone of men's fast pitch of yesteryear"
Ego comment of the year!

This is the women's game you are talking about. Thankfully the discussion has moved past the struggle of women being able to break into sports equally and in college. Women went out and broke the old stereotype men had set for them. This is not something that the men's game has done for the women's game this is what women have done to participate given an equal opportunity.
Men's game has run its course in a different direction. What you seem agitated about is the men's game never grew past where it was. While the women's movement has empowered themselves beyond what men in old tradition held them back from. When the opportunity presented itself for women to participate at this college level is what has grown the sport so tremendously. You should be appreciative of the movement women have proceeded to pursue. This is not because of what men have done in the sport. This is because of the College stage that women's softball has grown the sport to be.
Comparatively International softball men's or women's did not grow attention to the sport in any profound way did not take did not become part of broadcast media in the way that college sports has taken the women's game. Would say that women getting the opportunity to play in the Olympics did bring attention to the sport. Even while that opportunity has faded it did gather attention.

 

[Hillhouse]

"Everything we see to day was built on the backbone of men's fast pitch of yesteryear"
Ego comment of the year!

This is the women's game you are talking about. Thankfully the discussion has moved past the struggle of women being able to break into sports equally and in college. Women went out and broke the old stereotype men had set for them. This is not something that the men's game has done for the women's game this is what women have done to participate given an equal opportunity.
Men's game has run its course in a different direction. What you seem agitated about is the men's game never grew past where it was. While the women's movement has empowered themselves beyond what men in old tradition held them back from. When the opportunity presented itself for women to participate at this college level is what has grown the sport so tremendously. You should be appreciative of the movement women have proceeded to pursue. This is not because of what men have done in the sport. This is because of the College stage that women's softball has grown the sport to be.
Comparatively International softball men's or women's did not grow attention to the sport in any profound way did not take did not become part of broadcast media in the way that college sports has taken the women's game. Would say that women getting the opportunity to play in the Olympics did bring attention to the sport. Even while that opportunity has faded it did gather attention.

Bullseye, I had a long reply typed out but, I rethought my decision to send it because I think it will just lead to more discussion that will not really solve anything. If you think what I wrote was egocentric then it shows you don't know the actual history of softball in the USA. That statement was not meant to be ego driven. It was a statement of fact. It's only been in this generation that girls softball has exploded the way it has. All the splinter organizations like Alliance, PGF, USSSA, etc. all exist because they disliked the way ASA did things. ASA only became what it did (and the governing body of the sport in 1978) because of the men's game. I could go into more history but, I'm afraid I'll bore you.

I think where you're losing me is you don't believe I'm happy for the success of the women's game. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm happy for their success, I even work within that industry to help the game grow and improve.

But it is entirely possible for me to be happy for the women, and disappointed in the way the men's game has been treated at the same time. Can you name a single player on the USA men's team? Does USA softball advertise jersey sales for the men's team (promoting the game and team) they way they do the women? Would you like to compare the amount of money, time and preparation the USA women get before going to a world championship compared to the men's team? Trust me, you don't want to go into that comparison. Is the USA women's coach selected on coaching ability or how much sponsorship he/she can bring to the program? The men's team's coach is. The men's team is now almost exclusively funded by sponsorship brought from the coach. Right or wrong, that's how it's done.

Now, you can say the women's team is great and they deserve all these things. And I'd say you're right. But USA softball is the governing body for BOTH genders, not just the females. WBSC (formerly known as ISF) is the international governing body for both genders, not just the women. This organization turned their back on the men of their own sport, softball, merging with baseball instead of trying to get the men's game into the Olympics with the women. Think about that, the International SOFTBALL Federation didn't even try to get men's softball into the games. This is despite the fact it makes 10x more sense. Olympics dislikes having baseball #1. Baseball doesn't send MLB players to the games, #2. Olympics are worried about steroid and PED usage among baseball players, #3. cities that don't play much of either sport have to build 2 stadiums to host the Olympics, then they immediately tear them down after. If softball (both genders) was in the games, one field could be constructed. The only thing that would need to change between the males and females is the outfield fence and pitching distance. That is much more financially feasible than building 2 stadiums. Not to mention, the ISF is supposed to be promoting SOFTBALL, regardless of gender.

Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm ok with that too.

 

[_MIA_]

Bullseye, I had a long reply typed out

Man, I don't want to see what long looks like

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Man, I don't want to see what long looks like

But I bet you'd like to see the reply. I know I would.

 

[Bullseye]

This organization turned their back on the men of their own sport, softball, merging with baseball instead of trying to get the men's game into the Olympics with the women.

That is what I pointed out I didn't disagree with you I called out the root of the reason you're pissed. You seem to want to think that everything was built on what men have done I disagree on that point.
The women's game took its own Direction separate from Men. As you have pointed out here.

 

[Hillhouse]

Man, I don't want to see what long looks like

yea, I deleted it and then ultimately kept going longer and longer as I tried to make a shorter one!!

 

[Hillhouse]

That is what I pointed out I didn't disagree with you I called out the root of the reason you're pissed. You seem to want to think that everything was built on what men have done I disagree on that point.
The women's game took its own Direction separate from Men. As you have pointed out here.

I purposely waited a few days to reply to this message because I wasn't sure how to word my reply. I really don't think of myself as pissed, although I used to be very angry about this issue. I guess I've resigned to the fact that it is what it is. I'm never going to stop voicing this opinion though. And being vocal about USA softball has cost me a lot personally, including stints on the National team and coaching opportunities within USA softball. They don't like criticism, even constructive criticism. To them, the #1 enemy of progress is question! Asking questions or suggestions result in being listed as a malcontent and they need to be silenced. So, despite how it sounds, I don't really consider myself pissed. That's just not the word I'd use. But, I'm struggling to find a better one. And I'm sure the words I type come across as pissed to someone reading them.

I guess I agree with you fundamentally, the women's game has taken it's own direction. However, I'd have to say the direction they've taken, and the path they're on had an origin. That path they were on, is the path I am originally referring to. Even though Title 9 happened in 1972, and ASA/USA became the governing body of the sport in 1978, the women's game didn't change course until about 1992, when the announcement came out regarding the 1996 Olympics. Prior to that, and both ASA and the US Olympic committee pouring countless dollars into the women's team, the USA women's team wasn't the world dominators that you see now. In fact, it was New Zealand that won the 1986 Women's World championship. These days the NZ women's team doesn't even qualify for the World championships sometimes (women). The NZ men's team remains a favorite to win the World championship at each tournament.

Again, without knowing your age, location, and background, I don't know how much history of this sport you know. But, what you see now wasn't always like it is. Today, the overwhelming majority of colleges have teams: D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Juco, etc. It wasn't that long ago that only a few schools had funded teams. And now, Travel ball is not only a huge industry, but it's become a booming business for instructors. Again, that is relatively new too. Instructors didn't exist until more and more schools had softball and offered scholarships. And as more and more focus is put into the girl's game by the Governing body, the more money they've made. As a direct result of the money to be made in the girl's game, as they chase college scholarships and now the Olympic team, men's softball is treated like an afterthought. I truly believe USA softball would drop the men's team and program altogether if they could, but as the Governing body they can't. But, for almost all intents and purposes, they have.

And don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting the women's program doesn't deserve all they get from their success. But the men's game, which is what practically built ASA, turning it into the governing body, doesn't bring in the revenue that the women do. So men's softball is treated like the uncle nobody wants to sit next at Thanksgiving dinner. But if you know your history of the game, I think you'd see my point.