In a mood, I can't take it anymore... and it started with backdoor curve.

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
Looks like a drop to me.

I don't think you can definitively say that she doesn't throw a crop from 1 or 2 video clips posted here. For all we know, she was throwing a drop on these two pitches and we are not shown clips of here throwing a crop. When watching her live during the WCWS sure seemed like her crop was moving down and in to RHB especially when compared to pure drop ball pitchers like Cat and Hannah Rogers who also play in the NPF league.
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,105
0
Portland, OR
I guess I'd have to say there is a place for a curveball in the women's game.....and you don't always have to throw it in the zone.
Video clip of Sarah's game last night in the Japanese Pro League......pretty good start....one hitter with 12 k's.


[video]https://youtu.be/sYOU9Xt8nZ0[/video]

Angled and/or breaking pitches can induce a horizontal misread.

2vv9t7l.gif
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
Hindsight is 20/20....

When my DD was learning to pitch her pitching instructor taught her the following sequence of pitches over a 4-year period: fastball, change up, curve, drop, screw, and rise. Her logic in teaching the rise ball last was that it was the most difficult to master and requires more velocity than the other pitches to be effective. Every pitcher we have faced with an effective riseball was throwing 60+ MPH. My DD can throw a riseball, but it is probably her 4th best pitch. We are still working to improve it, but if I had it to do all over again we should have started working on it earlier and spent more time on it if that is what all the college coaches want....
 
Feb 20, 2012
263
18
I personally read "or comes up" as ... "or comes up" ... which clearly doesn't happen. Bill suggests that such a pitch would fool a lot of umpires ... and it would ... as well as virtually anyone else.

Bill had some good points ... such as the importance of the wrist & fingers as they pertain to throwing a riseball ... and the importance of mastering a few pitches rather than having familiarity with several pitches.

Bill had some weak points ... such as suggesting limited value of a curveball and screwball ... and the notion that a low-level riseball can lift up into the zone from below.

The argument against throwing a strike doesn't just pertain to screwballs and curveballs.

The argument against flat-lining a pitch is sort of silly when you bring up the value of a low-level riseball in the same post.

It appears that you have good insight into pitching and it not just follow the leader like everyone else about RDC
 
May 13, 2012
599
18
Dang FFS
You dragged me into this one.....:)
Let me put a disclaimer in here for people like Hillhouse and me.....we tend to think of the highest levels of the game..... it is a flaw we have to live with. Not every young lady is destined to be an elite level pitcher......that doesn't mean we should compromise our principles but sometimes we just need to understand a lot of pitchers/parents are totally satisfied if they are decent high school pitchers or decent travel ball pitchers. They don't feel the need to win a College World Series or make the National ll.

I believe this is a key to being open minded. When I read or post on here if it is about my DD then we are talking about a girl that takes lessons once a week between VB season and the end of HS SB. Practice 3 to 4 times with me between lessons. Now we work on fb, cu, drop, rise. I will honestly say that she is not a master of those. She enjoys pitching and is the schools #1. Take her to the pfg nationals and she probably gets hammered. Here she holds her own. I nor her have thoughts of major D1 but hope for something in smaller division. So when posters ask about something it maybe the best DD has to offer and they are trying to find a way to maximize it. I dare say the rotation being discussed is what just came natural so if it is a crop the they are trying to make the most of it and asking questions in hopes someone has made good use of that pitch. I dare say most are not saying it is the pitch that is a must have.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
...
Let me put a disclaimer in here for people like Hillhouse and me.....we tend to think of the highest levels of the game..... it is a flaw we have to live with.

Excellent point. This flaw is also embraced by many players, parents, and coaches. And it is not limited to pitching. It is pervasive in all aspects of coaching. All too often folks forget where they really are in the softball universe and do not realize that less is often more. IMO until you get to the elite college level you can be very successful with only a good IR fastball and a change up. That is IF you can truly command those pitches. I see way too many people working on developing wonder pitches that do not have a chance of coming to fruition because they lack the proper foundation. When in reality they could not throw their fastball low and on the river 70% of the time if they had to. You cannot have several great pitches until you have the first one and sadly most never master one pitch much less 2 - 4. To me the idea that you must have multiple pitches to be successful at any level of TB is pure nonsense.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
IMO until you get to the elite college level you can be very successful with only a good IR fastball and a change up. That is IF you can truly command those pitches. I see way too many people working on developing wonder pitches that do not have a chance of coming to fruition because they lack the proper foundation. When in reality they could not throw their fastball low and on the river 70% of the time if they had to. You cannot have several great pitches until you have the first one and sadly most never master one pitch much less 2 - 4. To me the idea that you must have multiple pitches to be successful at any level of TB is pure nonsense.

Point well taken and one of the reasons I waited 5 years for DD to learn more than a fastball and changeup. With that said, as you know, pitching practice can become rather boring and monotonous over the years and introducing a new pitch can keep the pitcher excited by learning new grips and techniques. It's kinda fun striking out a batter with a curve ball even though she hasn't mastered it. And the reality is that by 14u coaches will expect their prospective pitchers to have more than a fastball and changeup.
 
Jan 7, 2014
972
0
Western New York
Looks like there was a 'horizontal' misread on the part of the batter.

imozux.jpg

This clip is what came to mind when you talk about the "angled pitch" in the "inside- out swing" thread. Would that be an accurate assessment?

Although the clip is not shot directly in line with Ricketts, it appears to me like the ball is being thrown at an angle giving the viewer the appearance there is greater horizontal movement than what is actually occurring.

In the face on clip of KR, the vertical movement appears far greater than the horizontal movement.

Thoughts?

CP
 
Last edited:
Nov 6, 2013
771
16
Baja, AZ
Bill,

I read your post twice and laughed and choked up during each read. Gonna read it again. Thanks for the brutal honesty. Now I have more assurance to continue my DD on her path with drop, rise and CU.

THANK YOU.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,478
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top