In a mood, I can't take it anymore... and it started with backdoor curve.

[Il softball fan]

No dog in the whole crop, screw, curve being useless (crap) debate. Just wanted to say thanks to Rick Pauley for the most useful statement in the thread. Some parents, coaches, players, are absolutely fine with being a good successful high school pitcher, or TB pitcher, or for some college pitcher, but not all have to be elite this, or elite that.

 

[JAD]

No dog in the whole crop, screw, curve being useless (crap) debate. Just wanted to say thanks to Rick Pauley for the most useful statement in the thread. Some parents, coaches, players, are absolutely fine with being a good successful high school pitcher, or TB pitcher, or for some college pitcher, but not all have to be elite this, or elite that.

There are A LOT of college pitchers who do not live or die by the rise, drop, and change. How many college pitchers are considered "elite"? I can think of maybe 5 pitchers in GA who have great riseballs, one of them just enrolled at UF and two of the others are verballed to UGA.

 

[Il softball fan]

Maybe I wasn't clear on the intent of my post. Was just thanking Rick for pointing out that he, and others such as Hillhouse only think and explain things in terms of the absolute best, elite level of play, and that it is sometimes a "flaw" for them. I observe a lot of people on here with DDs that are the best of A level or successful college players, that seem to look down upon lower levels of play. I just think it was good of him to point out that there are, in fact, some teams, players, parents, that are perfectly OK with being a Rec team, or C level, or whatever. My own DD is currently B level, and nowhere near the top player on her new team....Partially because of having 3 titanium rods in her back, and partially because, she just isn't a big athletic type of girl. That is what she is, and there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[JJsqueeze]

heck- a lot of college pitchers get by with a bullet spin fastball and a CU even at top level D1. But they throw high 60s. I don't think you have to be targeting being elite in college in order to justify developing AS IF they were going to be elite. I don't think my DD has a snowballs chance in hell of playing D1 ball. I think she has a very good chance of throwing 60+ and having a good RB/DROP/CU repertoire however. But mentally she just does not have the killer instinct and competitiveness to compete at a high level. But I think she has a very good chance of being a top level DIII/NAIA pitcher, so while the goal is more modest, the training and expectation during training is the same, we want her drive as powerful as possible, we want her whip loose, her spins tight and her axis pure. I could set much lower expectations, I could tell her that she is already better than pitchers we have seen at some DIII/NAIA games but then we would never know how good she could have been. So when I think of any quest for being ELITE, it is a very personal challenge and has little to do with what others are doing and has everything to do with how far SHE can progress as measured against herself.

If she tops out at 55 and has to abandon the plan to be able to develop a dominant riseball, it will not be because of lack of effort, planning or practice, it will be because her body just is not designed to get there, and that is fine, we will make a new plan and she will go about becoming a dart throwing junk baller. No shame in that, but I would not want her maxing out at 55 without knowing that we did everything possible to allow her to maximize her potential.

So when we talk of settling for a crop instead of a drop, or not throwing a riseball, that is all well and good, a year from now I may well be posting that DD just doesn't seem to be getting any faster and she needs to change her plan and settle for a different repertoire but I know I will rest a lot easier knowing that it was not her lack of effort that limited her and it sure as hell was not her father not putting in the time to try to learn enough to act as her guide and pulling in the resources at his disposal (you all).

Edit- this is not a response to what IL fan just wrote, I started my dissertation before that post was up.

 

[RetiredCoach]

I never cease to be amazed at what I learn and re-learn on this forum.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[NVfishing]

I taught my DD how to throw a curve at 9. After it was pounded a few times we moved on. I agree with Bill that the best drop balls are fastballs with movement. The hardest ball to hit is one that drops out of the zone at the front of the box.