UMM.... Hillhouse take a look at this! Hello Elbow!?!

[radness]

Mr. B
What do you think if there was no women's softball...
Only men's Fastpitch and Baseball.

Was pondering that men's fast pitch direct competitor for marketing, fan base, number of teams and players who want to participate, $$$$$$ and Revenue is the Empire that is Major League Baseball. That seems to be what the battle is against.
Hard to imagine that the Olympic Committee would include men's fast pitch with baseball because simply in that they are similar but don't have as much following as each other. Just thought to throw that out there
But now neither baseball or softball is in the Olympics right??

Women's sports got a boost with Title Nine.
Sorry if that felt like a kick in the leg too men's fast pitch. Said with a hug

 

[JOHNN]

But it is entirely possible for me to be happy for the women, and disappointed in the way the men's game has been treated at the same time. Can you name a single player on the USA men's team? Does USA softball advertise jersey sales for the men's team (promoting the game and team) they way they do the women? Would you like to compare the amount of money, time and preparation the USA women get before going to a world championship compared to the men's team? Trust me, you don't want to go into that comparison. Is the USA women's coach selected on coaching ability or how much sponsorship he/she can bring to the program? The men's team's coach is. The men's team is now almost exclusively funded by sponsorship brought from the coach. Right or wrong, that's how it's done.

@Hillhouse I realize you are more involved on the softball side, but having been involved at that level of play, would you say that the way the mens side is treated for softball is probably the same that the USA womens baseball team is treated? Meaning lack of advertising jersey sales, how they pick coaches, the amount of funding given, etc?

 

[Hillhouse]

@Hillhouse I realize you are more involved on the softball side, but having been involved at that level of play, would you say that the way the mens side is treated for softball is probably the same that the USA womens baseball team is treated? Meaning lack of advertising jersey sales, how they pick coaches, the amount of funding given, etc?

Perhaps it simply proves your point, but I don't have the first clue about the US women's baseball team. I don't know their procedures or anything about them.

However, I think the obvious difference is, there isn't a long storied history of women's baseball. MLB, or a form of pro ball was being played long before the turn of the 1900's. One of the arguments I was making, that Bullseye disagreed with, was regarding the history behind the game of softball.

Are you involved with USA women's baseball? I used to date one of the members of that old Silver Bullets team in the 1990's!!!

 

[radness]

Perhaps it simply proves your point, but I don't have the first clue about the US women's baseball team. I don't know their procedures or anything about them.

Well theres that even with your involvement around fast pitch you yourself had no information of the women's bb game. Not that you should have... but it does make a point about sports that don't get talked about as often.
* heres this

Women's National Team Home

The USA Baseball Women's National Team was established in 2004, when an 18-player team was chosen following open tryouts across the nation.

www.usabaseball.com

Which brings the exact same point about men's fast pitch.
Think there's tons of people who have no clue about men's fast pitch, even though it's been around for longer then 2004.
However think that has to do more with media like ESPN.

Definitely a separate momentum happened with women's softball because women started getting scholarships to play in college around 1979 maybe early 80s.

Comparatively from baseball and males getting scholarships for many years previous... that I can see where men's fast pitch dudes could be irritated because their sport wasnt included like men's baseball was. Guess in some way there should be some sympathy there... Maybe

Absolutely do not see this as a battle of attention between the women's game and the men's game of fastpitch. Think baseball eclipses both Sports so ginormously if the women's game didn't get implemented in college the way it did it would have fallen much smaller to the Wayside.
That and men are attracted to baseball by such massive proportions,
it would be hard for men's fastpitch to get out from underneath that shadow.
Because of that, it would have been very difficult to implement men's fast pitch in college.

Simply commenting women's fast pitch grew ginormously because of that college opportunity. But baseball grew much larger many years previous.

 

[Hillhouse]

Well theres that even with your involvement around fast pitch you yourself had no information of the women's bb game. Not that you should have... but it does make a point about sports that don't get talked about as often.
* heres this

Women's National Team Home

The USA Baseball Women's National Team was established in 2004, when an 18-player team was chosen following open tryouts across the nation.

www.usabaseball.com

Which brings the exact same point about men's fast pitch.
Think there's tons of people who have no clue about men's fast pitch, even though it's been around for longer then 2004.
However think that has to do more with media like ESPN.

Definitely a separate momentum happened with women's softball because women started getting scholarships to play in college around 1979 maybe early 80s.

Comparatively from baseball and males getting scholarships for many years previous... that I can see where men's fast pitch dudes could be irritated because their sport wasnt included like men's baseball was. Guess in some way there should be some sympathy there... Maybe

Absolutely do not see this as a battle of attention between the women's game and the men's game of fastpitch. Think baseball eclipses both Sports so ginormously if the women's game didn't get implemented in college the way it did it would have fallen much smaller to the Wayside.
That and men are attracted to baseball by such massive proportions,
it would be hard for men's fastpitch to get out from underneath that shadow.
Because of that, it would have been very difficult to implement men's fast pitch in college.

Simply commenting women's fast pitch grew ginormously because of that college opportunity. But baseball grew much larger many years previous.

I don't disagree with things you said RAD, but I would add to them a bit.

#1. for me, I've never been around the baseball world so I'd have no way of knowing about the women's team. I've never played a single game of baseball in my life, not even sandlot in the neighborhood.

#2. I don't disagree, there's a lot of people who've never seen or even know that there's a such thing as men's FP. The problem with that is, some of these people are already in the softball world currently. The fact they are in the softball world, claim to be super fans of the game, but have so little knowledge about "how the other half lives" is a testament to my point about a 3 letter organization who doesn't do their part to promote the entire game, not just the women's.

#3. No doubt the best thing that ever happened to women's softball was college. That is what springboarded them to the Olympics.

#4. I don't think I know anyone who feels men's softball should've been put into college instead of baseball, or with baseball. Between the roster sizes in baseball and football, the need for a lot of female sports is needed to make up Title 9 numbers.

 

[Vertigo]

Bill, asking because I truly don’t know much of the history - do you think the development of men’s slowpitch possibly had an impact on men’s fastpitch? I would imagine more men would find it easier to play slowpitch - and be able to do it for many years (I see age 60+ leagues in some areas) compared to fastpitch.

The only reason I even knew men’s FP existed was because I saw a young guy (probably early 20’s) pitching like I’d never seen before against the wall I used to use back in the late 80’s. I was awe-struck. I have no idea who he played for (no internets back then) but damn, he threw hard!

 

[angispeds]

Mens fastpitch seems to be treated the way pretty much every single womens sport from basketball to soccer to tennis. Great players , great game, no investment although womens soccer is picking up a bit as is basketball. On a national team level everything should be equal regardless of money etc but I guess for the rest it’s just business.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[radness]

Mens fastpitch seems to be treated the way pretty much every single womens sport...

Really good comparison!

 

[sluggers]

One other problem with men's fastpitch is that it has to compete with men's slowpitch...men's slowpitch is ridiculously popular.

 

[Hillhouse]

Bill, asking because I truly don’t know much of the history - do you think the development of men’s slowpitch possibly had an impact on men’s fastpitch? I would imagine more men would find it easier to play slowpitch - and be able to do it for many years (I see age 60+ leagues in some areas) compared to fastpitch.

The only reason I even knew men’s FP existed was because I saw a young guy (probably early 20’s) pitching like I’d never seen before against the wall I used to use back in the late 80’s. I was awe-struck. I have no idea who he played for (no internets back then) but damn, he threw hard!

without question, slow pitch effected men's fastpitch. A lot of guys who left baseball for whatever reason, want to leave the challenge of the game behind them. Not all but, a lot. There's others that want a challenge for their competitive spirit after leaving their #1 love, baseball. That said, I don't know of too many guys with access to both FP and SP that would pick SP over FP given the option. In many of those cases, these guys are unaware about fastpitch and don't know how to find a team.

Where I am originally from in Erie PA, another game came to be that hurt FP where I'm from was called "Modified pitch". This is a cross between FP and SP. And then there came to be 2 kinds of modified, 9man and 10man. The 9man game is basically slingshot pitching, no real restrictions except the windmill action is not allowed. 10man is basically bowling style pitching, with an extra outfielder. In fact, the rules and restrictions of 10 man are similar to what is taught in Hello Elbow pitching: lock the elbow, point the ball toward's 2nd base, must release the ball at the side of the body, cannot turn the shoulders/hips to generate power, etc.

I think there' s alot of reasons why the men's side of the game declined. No 1 thing did it. But it's not just men's softball that has declined, all sports are losing numbers. Drive by any park on a weekend and you'll see it empty.