In a mood, I can't take it anymore... and it started with backdoor curve.

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JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
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I could be wrong but I would bet that Keilani's crop wasn't a flaw in her drop ball but instead was an intentional pitch that she perfected because it was very effective as it moves down and in to right handed batters.

As someone mentioned, the lowering of the strike zone from under the arm pits to the sternum a few years ago has taken some of the luster off of the effectiveness of the riseball and the umpires seem to be giving the corners more as strikes. Having some pitches that move left/right may not be such a bad thing.

In the meantime, I will have my DD work on all of her pitches to see which ones become her "go to" pitches. If she achieves 10% of what Ricketts has, I think this pitching thing will have been a success.

One thing to think about is whether her Crop really hade horizontal movement or was just thrown to the corner. I remember watching her and having my doubts. I saw the drop, never quite saw the CUrve part. just because Michelle Smith says it on TV and the pitcher calls it a crop doesn't mean it is exactly what we are discussing.

If only a member here had a DD that was a teammate and had inside info and could open the kimono a little on this :).
 
Rick Pauly is posting here again. Perhaps we can encourage him to comment.

Rick ... please comment on why you teach a curve-rise and curve-drop. Curious why you would call these pitches during games if they are 'crap' pitches.

You also teach a screwball. Please comment on that as well.

Dang FFS
You dragged me into this one.....:)
Let me put a disclaimer in here for people like Hillhouse and me.....we tend to think of the highest levels of the game..... it is a flaw we have to live with. Not every young lady is destined to be an elite level pitcher......that doesn't mean we should compromise our principles but sometimes we just need to understand a lot of pitchers/parents are totally satisfied if they are decent high school pitchers or decent travel ball pitchers. They don't feel the need to win a College World Series or make the National Team....and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Soooo......
Let's start at the beginning. The first two pitches to learn are dropball and change up......not much disagreement here I hope. The third pitch being promoted in this thread is the riseball. Well there are a lot of kids that can never master the riseball.....don't have the speed; can't get some semblance of backspin; can't master the release angle, etc.
So then the question becomes "do we leave them with just two pitches"? I would say in the event of not being able to master a riseball that the curveball, screwball, or dropcurve move up the option list.

I think a pitcher with a drop, change up, and curve has a better chance than a pitcher with just a drop and a change up. Likewise if the third pitch happens to be a screw or dropcurve.

Hope I don't contradict myself here in these next few statements. A pitcher who does not have enough speed/spin/spin axis for a riseball can still have a serviceable curveball so I would say go for it.
Some pitchers can't even get a semblance of rise or curve spin....in that case a screwball-drop or a drop-curve can become a third or fourth pitch. If you can throw a drop you can relatively easily change the axis a bit to get the ball to appear as a screwball or dropcurve (in actuality they are mostly angled pitches that drop with a slight curving or sliding action).....but none the less another twist for the hitter to deal with.

Now let's talk about an elite level pitcher......well the big three (rise,drop, change up) are certainly the preferred way to go. If this elite pitcher has the ability to throw a sharp breaking curve then I say do it......probably not going to be her #1 pitch but certainly can be effective......same thing with a screwball...probably not her #1 go to pitch but could be effective.
One thing to remember is that every hitter has at least one swing flaw....it would be nice to have a reasonable quality pitch to exploit that flaw.

In rating the pitches mentioned here the one that seems to expose the most swing flaws is the riseball.....hitters just don't see a lot of good ones to be able to hit it well. Second relative to exposing flaws is the change up.....the most difficult thing for a hitter to judge is speed variation.

Kinda got to rambling here.....I don't think there is a clear cut answer. Rise,drop, curve is a preferred way to go but I have seen way to many highly successful pitchers with a good "horizontal"moving pitch.
 
Last edited:
Jan 7, 2014
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Western New York
Thought these might be useful...

25g9qxj.gif


a24svp.gif


CP
 
I guess I'd have to say there is a place for a curveball in the women's game.....and you don't always have to throw it in the zone.
Video clip of Sarah's game last night in the Japanese Pro League......pretty good start....one hitter with 12 k's.


[video]https://youtu.be/sYOU9Xt8nZ0[/video]
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
Looks like a drop to me.

Me too. When I watched her in college I always thought her crop was kind of a reverse screwball thrown by a lefty. Is that confusing enough?

What I mean is the stayed on the first base side of the Mowatt lines and threw a drop across her body to the outside. More of an angled pitch than a breaking pitch. But like I said. Throw any thing 70 mph in college and you are going to do pretty darn well.

And that curve Sarah threw in that clip from Japan is wicked-awesome.
 

JJsqueeze

Dad, Husband....legend
Jul 5, 2013
5,436
38
safe in an undisclosed location
I love Ricks post on the pitches as well. If this pitching thing doesn't work out you have a bright future in diplomacy. I think everyone who read it came away with "cool, My thoughts are in line with Rick's".
 

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