Stealing signs?

[PEPPERS]

Question, If you figured out the opposing team's signs, wouldn't you use it to your advantage?

No I would not, it teaches the kids cheating is ok!

 

[mad hornet]

Why do you think they are not ready to call them in real competition? Because they can't call them as good as you can? I bet you can hit a ball better then an 11 year old as well, do you hit for them in real competition? What about fielding, are you doing that too?

I get a kick out of all the bucket coaches who get a rise from fooling a 10 year old into swinging at a change-up. . . they're just so smart! I imagine the 10 year old catchers would get an even bigger grin when they made the right call. . . and more importantly, they might actually learn something when they make the wrong call.

I agree that it's a progression, but just like you teach your catcher to throw to 2b on every single steal (so they learn), they need to call pitches as well. . . that's how they learn.

-W

Wow those are great analogies. Thanks for the lesson.

 

[absdad]

Why do you think they are not ready to call them in real competition? Because they can't call them as good as you can? I bet you can hit a ball better then an 11 year old as well, do you hit for them in real competition? What about fielding, are you doing that too?

I get a kick out of all the bucket coaches who get a rise from fooling a 10 year old into swinging at a change-up. . . they're just so smart! I imagine the 10 year old catchers would get an even bigger grin when they made the right call. . . and more importantly, they might actually learn something when they make the wrong call.

I agree that it's a progression, but just like you teach your catcher to throw to 2b on every single steal (so they learn), they need to call pitches as well. . . that's how they learn.

-W

Perhaps they don't need to call their own game at the younger ages. But I think they need to be relaying the pitches, from the coach, to the pitcher. If you treat your catcher like a backstop, that's exactly what you'll get.

 

[mad hornet]

When I pitched in college our coaches called every pitch. None of us were crazy about it but our team was awesome so we didn't complain much. The coach's did seem to have a better grasp on what pitches worked best on a given day because us pitchers would never admit to ourselves that our fastball was off or our breaking stuff was hanging. Not saying that this is right for every team.

We send pitches through our catchers and our system works well for us. I don't see a whole lot of 12u teams in TB where the coaches are NOT sending in pitches. Actually I don't see a lot of 14u teams that are any different.

Personally, I didn't like the change-up as the strikeout pitch at 10u unless it was full count. Too often it bounces in the dirt putting dropped third strike in play. We used it more for a set up pitch then try to get them to chase an outside fastball off the plate for the K.

 

[andyh64000]

Question, If you figured out the opposing team's signs, wouldn't you use it to your advantage?

No I would not, it teaches the kids cheating is ok!

I don't think it is technically cheating. I wouldn't yell out to look out for a pitch I knew was coming either though. But as a catcher I would try to figure out the steal sign and did have more than a few well timed pitch outs in my career.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Question, If you figured out the opposing team's signs, wouldn't you use it to your advantage?

No I would not, it teaches the kids cheating is ok!

It's not cheating. It's part of the game. There is nothing in the rule books that state you can't figure out the other team's signs. They do it in MLB. They do it in the NFL. Why do you think the coach on the sideline covers his face when he calls a play? They don't want someone lip reading them. It's been part of all sports for a long, long time. It's competing and trying to gain every advantage over your opponent.

 

[mad hornet]

Why do you think the coach on the sideline covers his face when he calls a play?

What? Coaches in the NFL calling plays? Sounds unhelpable to me. Why not let the QB call the whole game?

 

[mad hornet]

It's not cheating. It's part of the game. There is nothing in the rule books that state you can't figure out the other team's signs. They do it in MLB. They do it in the NFL. Why do you think the coach on the sideline covers his face when he calls a play? They don't want someone lip reading them. It's been part of all sports for a long, long time. It's competing and trying to gain every advantage over your opponent.

Is it cheating? No I don't think so - unethical maybe. I think as a coach you have to recognize that it's out there and take steps to prevent your signs being stolen. At the same time, I have no interest in trying to steal signs. I've seen this backfire way too many times. I know a coach (same guy who threw the same 10u pitcher in 6 games over two days) who tells his players to try and figure out opposing coach's signs when they are on the bench. I love to hear them tell their team what they think we are doing when it's WRONG.

 

[PEPPERS]

I guess I'm standing alone, but this is not the lesson I want ot teach kids.

I want to teach kids to hit and ajust to the pitches and leave the field with their head held high win or lose.

When they were caught the hitting stoped. Maybe they relied too much on knowing what and where the pitch was and they were unable to adjust and hit without knowing that info, can't say for sure. If a hitter picks up something in the motion and pitcher gives the pitch away that is one thing, if I need to steal sighs for my batter to hit then I would feel I failed as a hitting coach.

JMO

 

[mad hornet]

I guess I'm standing alone, but this is not the lesson I want ot teach kids.

I want to teach kids to hit and ajust to the pitches and leave the field with their head held high win or lose.

When they were caught the hitting stoped. Maybe they relied too much on knowing what and where the pitch was and they were unable to adjust and hit without knowing that info, can't say for sure. If a hitter picks up something in the motion and pitcher gives the pitch away that is one thing, if I need to steal sighs for my batter to hit then I would feel I failed as a hitting coach.

JMO

I don't think you are standing alone. I agree that it is wrong. However you can't call it cheating because there is no rule against it.

If you're 1B tripped my runner as she was going to second and got away with it because the ump didn't see it I would call it cheating. It's a clear rule violation. Not so with stealing signs.