SB swing -VS- BB swing

[FiveFrameSwing]

Let's see a before and after, ideally of someone you've worked with.

CO ... 'bat drag' is a pet peeve of mine. I attack the issue on day one. I don't believe you'll find any of my hitters having 'bat drag'.

I invited you to visit last year. We can arrange something for this year if you are interested.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Believe it or not ... but you have seen a clip. In addition to HI, I've posted these elsewhere ... in a thread that you read ... you didn't comment ... it likely wasn't clear to you that they were hitters that I was working with.

You say you want to see one of my hitters having 'bat drag' and how it was later corrected. That's sort of like saying that you want to visit HI and check out all the kid's that have 'bat drag' ... you simply aren't going to find many incidences of HI kids suffering from 'bat drag' ... and for a good reason. They teach the "second engine" ... i.e., they teach the "hands" ... and as Donny documented, if you teach the 'hands' (not the 'arms') then you shouldn't be 'dragging' the barrel. It's simply not as difficult as you've made it.

 

[theaddition]

CO ... 'bat drag' is a pet peeve of mine. I attack the issue on day one. I don't believe you'll find any of my hitters having 'bat drag'.

This isn't really directed at CO and certainly not his son, but I'd like your thoughts on what the main cause of bat drag. I have my thoughts and have corrected the slight bat drag my DD had 2 years ago.

What I found is perfectly demonstrated in the clips CO posted.
Both clips show the mechanics that cause bat drag, but the second clip doesn't allow for bat drag due to the bat resting on the young man's shoulder. However they are they same swing.

If the young man were to take the bat off his shoulder, there would be plenty of bat drag.
So unless CO plans on his son hitting that way in games, he hasn't corrected any bat drag in his son's swing.

Riddle me this FFS, why IMO are they the same swing?
And
Do you agree that they are virtually the same swing, mechanically speaking?

BD

 

[Chris O'Leary]

However they are they same swing.

If the young man were to take the bat off his shoulder, there would be plenty of bat drag.

Not really.

Watch the back elbow relative to the stripes on his pants and how it slides forward in the top clip but stays much closer to his back hip in the bottom clip.

Again, the bottom clip is far from a perfect swing, but he's definitely moving in the right direction.

P.S. I have learned, from experience with multiple hitters including my older son, that while putting bat on the side of the shoulder can shorten the swing, it's hardly a cure-all for bat drag. There are multiple ways that a hitter can still drag out of the bat on the side of the shoulder position.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

For the record … I am no longer a member of HI. My interest is not to intentionally promote HI, but to promote the truth. That said … in the last few weeks I have recommended two people with significant issues, and a “young understanding of hitting mechanics” look into HI. I did that not because I have a positive bias towards HI, but because IMO they have the ability diagnose the issues that these parents described and correct them. I say this based on first hand experience.

On that topic … I do see value in someone with significant issues seeking help from a “closed forum” where content is directed towards one system. That is, I do believe that parents new to hitting instruction are not well prepared to properly “filter in” good information and “filter out” bad information.

From my perspective, the truth is what it is … regardless of anyone’s personal biases. The truth is, at least as I’ve seen first hand, that HI members that come into the program having a ‘bat drag’ issue, quickly resolved their issues with ‘bat drag’. Further, resolving their ‘bat drag’ issues wasn’t overly difficult. Many of the members of HI easily recognize 'bat drag' at normal swing speeds … and they correctly recognize ‘bat drag’, even without the checkpoint reference of the elbow leading the hands at the RVP connection point. They, as well as Mankin, can do this because they understand the importance of observing the barrel path and from this can determine whether or not the hands are being used. It’s something that they take care of right away … as do I.

I’m not saying that HI is a great place. I’m also not saying it is a bad place. You might actually say that I have reason to be biased against HI … but the truth is what it is. They have extremely low incidences of ‘bat drag’ (virtually zero), because they promote certain themes that nix it at the source.

 

[theaddition]

Not really.


P.S. I have learned, from experience with multiple hitters including my older son, that while putting bat on the side of the shoulder can shorten the swing, it's hardly a cure-all for bat drag.

It [bat on the shoulder] doesn't cure bat drag.
It [bat on the shoulder] only masks it.

Your son has an above average swing.
My intent is not to comment on your son's swing.
Rather, the issue of drag. It just so happens I see drag in both swings.
Or I should say, the mechanics that lead to drag are in both swings.

I work with a lot of younger to teen aged kids.
Bat drag is every where.
I have fixed in my DD and some of here die-hard softball playing friends as well as my son.
They, including my DD, did/do the exact mechanical swing flaw your son is doing in the clips above.

Bd

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Both clips show the mechanics that cause bat drag, but the second clip doesn't allow for bat drag due to the bat resting on the young man's shoulder. However they are they same swing.

If the young man were to take the bat off his shoulder, there would be plenty of bat drag.
So unless CO plans on his son hitting that way in games, he hasn't corrected any bat drag in his son's swing.

Riddle me this FFS, why IMO are they the same swing?
And
Do you agree that they are virtually the same swing, mechanically speaking?

BD

I wasn't going to bring it up ... but yes, the swing is basically the same. He hasn't corrected the route cause IMO.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

BD ... this swing, IMO is simply the Epstein Deltoid Drill.

It’s a drill ... a drill based on the same person that CO criticized in his DVD.

It is a drill that teaches a hitter to power the swing with their lower body ... and NOT to power the swing with their arms.

I’d hardly consider this a game-ready swing. I use this drill in the cages, head-on soft-toss, and tee work. When a hitter makes a swing that I consider to have been powered with their arms, then I make them do this drill to recapture the feel of not using their arms.

 

[theaddition]

BD ... this swing, IMO is simply the Epstein Deltoid Drill.

It’s a drill ... a drill based on the same person that CO criticized in his DVD.

It is a drill that teaches a hitter to power the swing with their lower body ... and NOT to power the swing with their arms.

I’d hardly consider this a game-ready swing. I use this drill in the cages, head-on soft-toss, and tee work. When a hitter makes a swing that I consider to have been powered with their arms, then I make them do this drill to recapture the feel of not using their arms.

It is similar to the torque drill but for one critical element.
If you do a side by side clip of him with a side view of a hitter with no bat drag, you'll see the root cause of his bat drag.

Once the bat is taken off the deltoid, the bat drag will re-appear.


BD

 

[Chris O'Leary]

BD ... this swing, IMO is simply the Epstein Deltoid Drill.

Not exactly.

Off hand, I can name 7 important differences.

Thanks to you, I know what Epstein's torque drill looks like, how he teaches it, and the problems with how he teaches it.