SB swing -VS- BB swing

[Chris O'Leary]

A lot of pros have the 'feel' that they swing down to the ball ... even Bonds is on record with that comment.

That's fine, but people need to understand that you can't confuse a feel with reality.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

That's fine, but people need to understand that you can't confuse a feel with reality.

It really is a common cue amongst many professional hitters. Hence why I feel that it is somewhat relevant to try and learn why so many elite hitters have that 'feel' when video shows an ideal swing plane.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I've spoken to multiple HI members ... even met with some of them. I can tell you from first hand interactions that they don't believe 100% in some of what is being taught ... and in some cases they simply can't quite understand what is being taught. That said, there are some nuggets there ... and one of them is hand usage ... and yes, barrel dump was unfortunately promoted there at one point ... but that doesn't mean you can't learn the proper way to use the hands.

My son is doing just fine. First and foremost, he has to get that what he's been doing isn't going to work any more. We're moving in that direction and making progress. He just has to stick with the new way. If you actually worked with kids, you'd know that this is very typical when working with kids, and especially headstrong, athletic boys. Girls are actually easier to work with in this respect because they tend to be more likely to be people pleasers and to want to do what they are told to please their instructor (which of course makes them more prone to being led off the path by bad instructors).

First, I'm glad your son is doing better. This has been a long struggle for him. I do work with hitters ... and I'm going to repeat ... 'bat drag' is a relatively simple issue to correct. I do agree that it is a typical issue ... but it can be made to go away quickly while enhancing the swing. I also agree that working with girls is different ... this is a personal bias ... but IMO the majority seem to pay attention better for longer time periods and seem to be more 'feel' based. Again ... this is a personal bias ... but there is something positive that many boys have ... not uncommon for a boy to be more 'reckless', and with that comes 'less tension' ... IMO you can tap into that ... and girls can learn to be "less perfect", and more "tension free", if introduced to the concept.

Also, Donny does get the diagnosis of bat drag correct. Most bat drag is related to an overly dominant back arm (not just the top hand) and I have great video of this. However, I have tried his kind of fixes and they don't work consistently, due in part to strength issues.

I agree again ... Donny correctly understands "true" 'bat drag' ... and not just 'bat drag' associated with the elbow to hand relative relationship at the RVP connection point. And Donny did document how pulling the barrel forward with the top hand was a flaw and contributing issue with 'bat drag'. You don't have to 'dump the barrel' ... not at all. Usage of the hands should not result in 'barrel dump' ... that is correct usage of the hands should not result in 'barrel dump'.

My personal data point is different. I find teaching use of the hands, not the arms (you are correct IMO to advocate connection), along with a lower body running start (essential IMO) ... removes 'bat drag'. Teach the use of the hands, on top of a lower body running start. and 'bat drag' goes away quickly. After all, 'bat drag' is simply 'dragging the bat' ... so teach not to 'drag the bat' ... and you do that by using the hands.

 

[mrslug01]

Not yet.

He basically has two swings, one of which is an opposite field slap and the other which is a standard rotational swing.

Agreed.. I've seen him pull it to right as in this video so I know he can use rotational. Wonderign what the slpa swing looked like.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The fact that you would say this makes me think you don't actually work with hitters.

I do ... and I generally take care of 'bat drag' issues first. That fact that you find it so difficult to correct suggests to me that you haven't grasped proper hand usage yet. Bat drag is simply dragging the barrel ... turn it ... don't drag it. Establish a tight HPP ... something that IMO anyway that HI got correct.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

When it comes to my younger son, the issue isn't just that he pulls with his top hand (e.g. top hand dominance), it's that he pulls with his back ELBOW. That's what causes his back elbow to slide forward.

Understand that there are no muscles in the rear elbow. Perhaps it might be better to say that you haven't properly taught him the "actions of connection".

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Understand that there are no muscles in the rear elbow. Perhaps it might be better to say that you haven't properly taught him the "actions of connection".

Actually, like most kids, he came up with (or more properly his body came up with) the idea of pulling with the back elbow all on its own.

Anyone who actually works with kids knows that this is very common, but does come in some slightly different flavors.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Actually, like most kids, he came up with (or more properly his body came up with) the idea of pulling with the back elbow all on its own.

What I'm trying to say is that it wasn't the 'back elbow' that was pulling.

Anyone who actually works with kids knows that this is very common, but does come in some slightly different flavors.

I didn't say it wasn't common ... I said it is easy to correct. Again ... certain hitting circles have extremely low incidences of 'bat drag' ... mainly because they teach mechanics that encourage a swing free of 'bat drag'. All I'm saying is that I've confirmed that correcting 'bat drag' doesn't have to be the multi-year effort that you've made it. You may not personally like some of these people ... but they do have some information that is quite useful.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

That fact that you find it so difficult to correct suggests to me that you haven't grasped proper hand usage yet.

Just so we can squash this particular fixation and line of attack of yours, here are very recent before and after views of my younger son.

His after swing still isn't perfect (his lower body stretch and sequencing needs work), but there's no bat drag.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Just so we can squash this particular fixation and line of attack of yours, here are before and after views of my younger son.

His after swing still isn't perfect (his lower body stretch and sequencing needs work), but there's no bat drag.

Not a line of attack. I already said congratulations on the improvement with your son. I believed you ... and my congratulations were sincere.

You spent a long time working through this. If you wish to be helpful then describe what finally worked in terms of seeing improvement.