Hitting Questions?

[RayR]

This is what I can only imagine is like wrassling a pig in the mud, but I'll give it a shot.

3- In MLB it is a matter of EARLY shoulder/arm/hand/bat action that creates resistance to turning.

Please answer Yes or No to the following question to answer the above statement:

Are you talking about scap action that allows the hips to rotate first?

 

[tom.guerry]

MTS asked:

Quote:
3- In MLB it is a matter of EARLY shoulder/arm/hand/bat action that creates resistance to turning.
Please answer Yes or No to the following question to answer the above statement:

Are you talking about scap action that allows the hips to rotate first?


=======

Answer: No.
scap action does not "allow the hips to rotate first".

shoulder/scap action/movement adds to resistance to turning with hips but only after hips have already started to open ("rotate first") as part of coil.

bat starts uncocking/untipping as back elbow plateaus and starts down (slaught would say back elbow down starts swing). At same time front leg and hips start to open. hands stay back at back shoulder.back shoulder shoulders are not moving at this point, see aaron clip.

This is why slaught says the back elbow starts the swing as opposed to saying the shoulders start the swing.

scaps are static at this point between active proximal body turn (level turn of hips working upward) and active turning of bathead. bat starts turning/uncocking/swinging/untipping/accelerating rearward.



scaps do pinch and tilt front shoulder down/in much earlier so they are positioned to tilt (or "untilt" if you tilted front shoulder down and in to prepare) to further resist turning with the more level hip turn that turns the body, but this is after the shoulders have stayed back while the torso starts coiling.

This tilting spine/scap action adds to resistance and degree/dynamics of coil as hips fire (drop and tilt at go).

Turning shoulders at GO in the MLB pattern (rushing) lowers resistance and forces a less effective coil and drag.

 

[tom.guerry]

Mendoza and Benyi as another example have a high level pattern, but not as effective as the typical MLB swing. It is a high level pattern because they have synched upper and lower body programs (2 plane swing) which work to control load of torso in between and they create upper body resistance, BUT the way they create the resistance is by low bat/bat wrapping instead of by the back arm loading pattern similar to overhand throw. this means the swing is long, there is drag and the plane cuts more across the ball for a shorter contact zone.

the vertical bat/one arm/back arm tip and rip drill is designed to add the MLB level arm action to improve this type of swing.

if you put bustos side by side, she has a higher level upper body action/resistance/control/earlier batspeed/longer contact zone/better plane matching.

Kristin Rivera did too before someone convinced her to go with a flatter bat position her senior year.

Hank AAron has even better upper body/resistance mechanics.

 

[tom.guerry]

MTS -

As for patterns in fastpitch, I would call Michelle Smith, for example, the PCR 1 plane pattern which shows among other things a different lower body seuence.

the 1 plane middle out swing lacks early batspeed becasue there is no resistance from upper body to keep hands back, so the goal is to create a quick ("5 frame") swing and to do so you need to narrow the leg base so the whole body can turn faster. So if look at smith video, you see the legs get closer together steadily rather than the 2 plane/upper lower/MLB type pattern where the legs spread then narrow.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Mark H. I asked Bustos hitting coach about the bat you posted instead of the Whiphit Here is his quote "In my opinion the WhipHit is the better choice....

If your front side opens too much you will miss the ball on a tee completely or will hook the ball foul by swinging around it.

If you cast out or make a bad first move you will hit it with the rope.

You must have a great hand path as you only have about a 2.25 inch area to hit with and I think the center of the ball to handle is about 28 inches so you are targeting using the sweet spot of the bat to the ball every time.

If you swing down or level to the ball this is not a device you want to use! It kind of takes the bull **** out of swinging down or level as you will hit yourself using it so why swing that way. I shake my head every time I see a kid slapping their shoulders or back when they swing. If you or I did that to them it would be considered a form of child abuse wouldn't it? And yet there are people teaching this swing at all levels of the game.

Our girls in China took batting practice with this and all my girls can hit soft toss with it....some

 

[Mark H]

I do like the device. I do not like the way they were showing it being used on the website. I posted the pics just to show other examples of the same idea. It all goes back to Adair's point about the bat should be swung like a rock on a rope. I love the fact that any of these three devices will enforce Adair's point. I doubt the value of being accurate enough to center the the ball on the end of the rope with the ball on the tee. I think this has little relationship to the sweet spot of a bat. Sounds like maybe I see value but just a partially different value in the device. Seems to me the kid is going to be tempted to guide the hand path in or out to ensure contact ball to ball rather than swinging the device to feel connection-Adair's rock on a rope analogy being part of that.

 

[RayR]

Tom,

Thanks for absolutely doing nothing to make your position any clearer.

It comes across as you just emptying the cupboard into the pot and calling it a world class stew...

You don't have to try and explain any further. My head is spinning enough.

Thanks

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

You know, as a pretty new coach looking for answers, when I read a thread that starts off asking for some drills ideas I would prefer NOT to have to read what a couple of blowhards say about swing mechanics at the very highest level of softball. If I want that I will look for a thread titled "Advanced hitting assistance needed for college player".

Gentlemen, you have hijacked this thread. Please see the ORIGINAL question below.

What are some of the best drills to keep the hitter from pulling their front shoulder off of the ball?

Are one-handed drills effective and what are some of the most common if they are used?

Also, what is the best instructional video that explains hitting philosophy as well as drills used?

 

[RayR]

You know, as a pretty new coach looking for answers, when I read a thread that starts off asking for some drills ideas I would prefer NOT to have to read what a couple of blowhards say about swing mechanics at the very highest level of softball. If I want that I will look for a thread titled "Advanced hitting assistance needed for college player".

Gentlemen, you have hijacked this thread. Please see the ORIGINAL question below.

You are right, but if you read enough threads you will see the same pattern. Tom likes to interject his universal hitting philosphy into everything. It doesn't help the average coach/mom/dad at all solve basic hitting flaws.

I offered my advice (posture issues) and Tom jumped in and gave us CONTENT siting every known hitting source in the world that hopefully helped the OP, but it is unlikely.

And to further my advice, I tend to agree with Mark H that it can also be a rotation problem.

More likely, it is a combination of the two. Youth hitters usually solve the hitting problem by standing too erect and laying the barrel level to the ground. Then try and use the arms to get the barrel around as they straighten even more.

They need to pull off to get the barrel lined up with ball as they have usually created a bat draggy swing with a barred out front arm. And it works at the lower levels with slower pitching, or maybe it doesn't work so well.

But, in the end, without a clip to see it is fairly impossible to offer an accurate opinion.

 

[tom.guerry]

3rd try to answer first post:

1 - how to fix flying open depends on swing pattern, so first you need to learn a basic pattern.

basic patterns are organized/developed by innate potentials. teaching/learning is via bringing out these patterns.

the descriptions are attempts to describe the pattern/results, not a guide for building up a cookie cutter swing based on a teacher's bias.

I recommend learning the mlb pattern while also learning a good overhand throw and how they are similar.

overhand throw: Hodge BIOMECHANICBASEBALL, Nyman ebook, Wolforth athletic pitcher, Jaeger longtoss

MLB hitting: prefer Epstein numbers drills. Lau is fine, Slaught Candrea is fine. Mankin is fine

2 - one armed drills are good,try

Mankin's approach starting with back arm CHP then adding lead arm BHT.

See batspeed.com

Then add tip and rip drill from H-I.com

Lau' Jrs open top hand drill is good. Peavy's one armed lead arm drills with progressive addition of back arm and using procut weights is very good.

LAu Jr's book is called Lau's Laws.

Peavy's drills can be downloaded from his website peavynet.com

3- Williams SCIENCE OF HITTING and Epstein's info is far and away the best mix of mental and mechanics and philosophy for MLB pattern



If you want to do better than an arm swing and do not find throwing and swinging in a similar pattern to be important,then try PCR as your power swing pattern either Nyman ebook or E-H.com.

That is what Mark is describing.

Mixing patterns makes consistency suffer.

Happy Holidays to all and thanks again Marc for the civil site.