radial deviation

[Chris O'Leary]

Slaught freezes the image of Pujols and draws a green line from the ball to the heart of the catcher's mitt. He then traces the inverted arc of Pujols's bat in red. On the other end of the phone, Slaught laughs in disbelief. "He's on plane with the pitch for about five feet!"...Slaught observes, the sweet spot of Pujols's bat stays inside the "big zone" for so long that even if he mistimes the pitch, he will still, in most cases, make contact with the ball."

I'm skeptical about the claim above.

The pink dot is the sweet spot.

 

[ssarge]

P.S. I do think that running start is an interesting idea that makes some sense (overcoming inertia) and for which there is some evidence.

As always, I am unusre of definitions from that particular school as well.

However, I do believe the swing should be one continuous movement - a loading cycle, followed by an unloading cycle (with some overlap). SO in that sense, you bet.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[HittingGuru]

Guru: Agreed, but would be interested in your definition of "too early."

Scott

Hey Scott unhinging to early is anytime before connection and proper bat lag is achieved or in your parlance around the corner.

 

[batsics1]

Has anyone else noticed how much top wrist extension Pujols has in frame 19 and how his top wrist is in a neutral position by frame 24? How would this help or hinder top hand torque?

"old fashioned 30 fps video blurs with motion which is a fine way to appreciate how the barrel is accelerating. with these high rate digitals you get the weird out of plane distortion and you have to estimate acceleration bt how far the barrel moves each frame."

A fine way to appreciate and a poor way to measure which leads to conjecture.

"The motion is better seen with clips, not stiils, that you can play back and forth with quicktime for example, better seen at frame rates in the 24-30 or at most 60 fps frame rate."

I generally agree but I think composite stills are underrated as they allow one to better measure actions and there effects on a system.

Here are two composite stills, one with blur and one without. Are both exhibiting THT or are there other explanations for what is happening?

Hitter wrote, "Crystl describes leading with the elbows and the knob of the bat leading the elbows". How does that compare with the point at which the bat begins to blur?

I'm not questioning the teach here just trying to understand the actions occurring.

The Manny clip is every other frame to fit in a reasonable context. The camera is also zooming out so I used the front of his helmet as a reference point.

 

[Hitter]

I'm skeptical about the claim above.

The pink dot is the sweet spot.

Chris is there something you see verses what Don was seeing as far as the "big zone"?

Note : When is this clip as the GQ clip is from 2006 just trying to compare apples to apples

Thanks Howard

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Chris is there something you see verses what Don was seeing as far as the "big zone"?

Note : When is this clip as the GQ clip is from 2006 just trying to compare apples to apples

While he may be on plane for 5 feet, I don't see the sweet spot being in line with the bath of the ball (the black line) for 5 feet.

I'd put it at 2 or 3 feet, which is pretty typical.

This clip is from April 23, 2009. The result was a home run to LCF off of an 85MPH FB.

 

[tom.guerry]

batsic-

do you have the clip the stills are extracted from ?

 

[tom.guerry]

this oleary pujols clip should work:

about 30 fps,but no blur because of equivalent of super fast shutter speed.


mechanically speaking in terms of kinetic chain/speed gains/summation/early batspeed:

the "arms and legs" and/or "hips and hands" are synched as bat begins uncocking/untipping to begin coil/rubberband winding,try toggling back and forth between frames 8 and 9. (this is already well into the swing motion near the end of the pat of the swing that is similar to overhand throw).

notice the pushing from the back foot causing the foot to react backward.

at the same time you can see the synched back arm and front leg EXternal rotation which times the upper/lower body coil well, and the simultaneous INternal rotation of the lead arm.

this is when the bat starts circling backward. the body needs to bend/sit to form a framework for continuing to put the muscles in stretch.

frame 9-10: bat continues to untip/uncock rearward, rear leg starts to turn down and in as back hip starts to project. still just arms moving bat, no shoulder tilt yet.

frames 11-12, shoulders tilt. this is a sign of the GO move and where the bat would "blur" if "shutter" on camera was open longer. here there is a simultaneous twisting force of the forearms (back forearm supination,forearm pronation) rotating of the elbows as they retain their spread and lateral tilt of the shoulders.

this shoulder arm and forearm action is all coordinated to try to turn the bat handle about a point between the hands. this creates a resistance that "keeps the shoulder in there/prevents "flying open".

by frame #13 the hips which fired at GO continue with back hip thrust but have started to decelerate and shoulders are accelerating toward peak turning velocity as back forearm angle is retained/bicep pinched. arms are not casting, but bathead is accelerating and swing plane is developing.

by frame #14, the torso has started decelerating, the back elbow angle has started to increase, the lead arm has started to hinge away from the chest, the lead wrist has still not started to unhinge. the swing plane is set and is tantamount to a 2D plane the bathead whips in from about here ("lag") to contact

by frame #15, the arm hinge has started to decelerate and the bathead has started to accelerate as the lead wrist has started to unhinge

by frame #16, the lead wrist has unhinged and the bat has hit max batspeed at contact. back arm has continued "palmup" extension. back scap still clamped until contact. still some "cock"/"set"/"dorsiflexion" remaining in top hand wrist (top hand wrist unbroken at contact as Williams said). lead arm remaining INternlly rotated in lead shoulder socket (this particular arm hinging release action is called "angled hinging" in golf, see The Golf Machine).

 

[Wellphyt]

old fashioned 30 fps video blurs with motion which is a fine way to appreciate how the barrel is accelerating. with these high rate digitals you get the weird out of plane distortion and you have to estimate acceleration bt how far the barrel moves each frame.

in the first frame here, the barrel is turning by back arm EXternal rotation and lead arm INternal rotation BEFORE the shoulders have moved as part of coil/rubberbandwinding.

arms move before shoulders.

shoulders slaved to arms.

arms slaved to forearms and hands.

Tom, as always your description of what Pujols is doing is right on. Hopefully others have noticed how Pujols' hands raise up in frames 19 thru 23 as his back elbow lowers. When I swing, it's this movment that initiates the backward arc of the bat head. This is how the pros get the bat head moving and how they "get their hands flat quickly" without dumping the barrel.

IMO, what Pujols does in frames 19 thru 23 is huge. I don't get hung up on the terminology used by the likes of Mankin, HI.com, Epstein, Bonds, Williams or the Chicago White Sox Academy guy, to describe the movement. I prefer to focus on the movement itself, and not on how others choose to describe it.

 

[Hitter]

Has anyone else noticed how much top wrist extension Pujols has in frame 19 and how his top wrist is in a neutral position by frame 24? How would this help or hinder top hand torque?

"old fashioned 30 fps video blurs with motion which is a fine way to appreciate how the barrel is accelerating. with these high rate digitals you get the weird out of plane distortion and you have to estimate acceleration bt how far the barrel moves each frame."

A fine way to appreciate and a poor way to measure which leads to conjecture.

"The motion is better seen with clips, not stiils, that you can play back and forth with quicktime for example, better seen at frame rates in the 24-30 or at most 60 fps frame rate."

I generally agree but I think composite stills are underrated as they allow one to better measure actions and there effects on a system.

Here are two composite stills, one with blur and one without. Are both exhibiting THT or are there other explanations for what is happening?

Hitter wrote, "Crystl describes leading with the elbows and the knob of the bat leading the elbows". How does that compare with the point at which the bat begins to blur?

I'm not questioning the teach here just trying to understand the actions occurring.

The Manny clip is every other frame to fit in a reasonable context. The camera is also zooming out so I used the front of his helmet as a reference point.

We do a drill she terms as Matrix and we go in slow motion and after toe touch she talks the kids through it by being slow and deliberate working the elbows as a unit, getting the turning and tilting and bat angle while still being very slow and there is a ball on a tee and from the bat lag position she pauses and then flips the ball forward to a target on the net. They keep repeating and get a little faster as they progress. Especially for the girls we stress the back elbow clearing the rib cage area. Each girl is unique as to the thickness in the chest area and some MUST start their hands further away than others to assure the back elbow clears the body.

Thanks for the pictures

Howard