Why Your Softball Players Have Elbow Pain: Wrist Flick Edition

[austinwass]

The Wrist Flick... I still don't understand why this drill is being used as a warm up or for teach throwing mechanics. It forces a pushing motion during a throw. I'm sure you have all seen girls throw and it just doesn't look smooth or there's something about the throw that looks like they're forcing it with the arm. Common suggestions or generic phrases would be "Stay back" or "Use your legs". These comments mean well, but how do you really stay back or use your legs? How do you get good direction in your throw?

Check out this article about poor throwing mechanics vs proper throwing mechanics and some drills that can help teach your athlete's to use the proper musculature and sequence of movements for a proper throw in order to minimize injury and take stress off the very vulnerable elbow joint.

Why Your Softball Players Have Elbow Pain: Wrist Flick Edition


Just a heads up...The article may not load immediately.

 

[NWITom]

From the videos I don't see how the bad throwing motion he is showing is caused by the wrist snap.It just looks like bad mechanics period. We do wrist snaps and do not throw anything like the bad videos. The snap is just taught so they snap off the laces at end of throw period. Whether you agree with teaching it or not I don't see the correlation between the two.

 

[austinwass]

The reason for the wrist flick according to some softball coaches is that it teaches their throwers to get "out in front", which is something you don't want to teach. I was trying to find insight as to why this drill was relevant and if it should be implemented at all. Isn't arm action and sequence more important than isolating the spin of the ball? That's where the correlation comes into play. I've been told the reason for the wrist flick was for an "out in front" feeling during the throw. I feel there is better use of time in actually teaching the arm action rather than spend 5 or 10 minutes on wrist flicks.

 

[Sweet Lou]

I feel there is better use of time in actually teaching the arm action rather than spend 5 or 10 minutes on wrist flicks.

If 10 to 15 wrist flicks at the start of your throwing warmup takes 5 to 10 minutes, you are doing it wrong.
I know a lot of people hate the whole wrist flick idea but I personally have never seen or heard of it being associated with elbow pain before this thread. Unless you are doing something horribly wrong with the wrist flicks I can't see how it would be an injury causing action in any way shape or form. I can see it being argued that it doesn't have value to the throwing program but that's a separate discussion.

 

[RichK]

Austin, thanks for all the work on a topic that doesn't get enough attention. I read it with great interest, so here's some feedback (which I wrote as I went through your post).

- The first two embedded videos are a strawman, if you arguing against those mechanics no one would argue with you. I'd dump them. The first girl is obviously a newbie (OK, I see she is also in your "after" videos -- congrats on her progress but she is still a super-raw newbie in that first clip). Also, in YOUR demo of bad mechanics you throw off the wrong leg (like a girl?) and laugh, it's a bit condescending. Don't think you want to come off that way. IMHO : >

- The third video, the wrist flip with elbow elevated, IS a good starting point for this discussion. Many coaches start throwing intervals with that. I don't know necessarily agree it causes a push, but I would agree it's not terribly useful. If anything, it can help a player feel the ball come off her fingers. But that only needs to be reinforced so much. Last summer, with my 13U team, we changed to working on a "dart throw" as the starting point in our warmups, which is useful but not many girls do naturally This fall, we started "throwing darts" from different angles, emphasizing as you write pronation rather than flick.

- After that, it gets very interesting. After seeing you and Tewks recently describe splitting the body into front and back along two different axis, and getting the ball behind the head when "back open" changes to "back closed", I've been playing with this with my daughter. I think it's a useful idea, still trying to understand it though. Will try playing with seated and bat drills.

I'd be very interested to know what others think about that idea. My own DDs first reaction was "Dad, I thought you didn't want me to wrap the ball around my head but point it to third base" which led to a useful discussion about how what is "back" changes as you throw. I'd also like to understand a little more the role of the lower half in powering the upper mechanics -- is it similar to hitting coil/uncoil?

Personally, I've been wrestling with "arm motion" issues with my daughter for a while. They've started to impact her game throws (from 3B where she plays) to become a real issue as she's gotten older. The more I learn, the more I think her problem was getting her elbow up and the ball back (or facing 3rd), and then from that point maintaining that same "back" point as she rotates which would turn her throw into a push. With that motion, she also does some odd things rotating her wrist that I've never been able to fix (or understand : >), but maybe she's trying to find some leverage her mechanics are otherwise missing.

Austin, I like a lot of what you are exploring and showing. I'm not sure that focusing on wrist flick as the "way in" to the topic is quite right and might distract from the really strong stuff in the second half of your post -- again, just my two cents : >

Tks

 

[austinwass]

RichK,

Thanks for the feedback. I loved the response. The girl in the clip is still super raw and needs a ton of clean up work but her transformation was awesome! In the video I posted, I was laughing because I couldn't believe how wrong the throwing motion felt being out in front. I didn't mean to come off condescending and for that I apologize if it seemed like that. I will remake the video just because you do bring up a good point. Thanks for that. I will be looking into some of your other responses in more detail. I think the title of the article should be changed... but I wanted to get the attention of people and I know that Wrist Flicks is something that players always do and I think it just reinforces an out in front throw or like you said it should be used only so much or more of a focus on wrist pronation.

Thanks again for the comments and I appreciate your honesty. Talk soon.

And the lower body I guess is similar to the coil in hitting. The glutes and hamstrings have to be activated to extend the hip. As the hips extend, the arm is moving into external rotation. The back femur should be internally rotating in the acetabulum (hip socket).. which will look like the knee is driving down, but its because of the motion at the hip joint.

Austin

 

[Tewks]

Just a heads up... Austin and I are business partners. I didn't know what he was doing... was saying stuff like "gross!" when he was throwing. Again, not trying to be mean, just horsing around a little. Didn't realize he was filming to post in this format! Glad you guys are enjoying the content. A lot more will be coming out!

RichK, as for the first girl in the video... I can 100% attest to the fact that is her "before" video. That's me with the long hair sitting on the couch! (Hair has since been cut, donated... looked so professional there.) She was playing 14U travel ball when she started with us, tons of arm pain - obviously - and zero confidence. This young woman has been working very hard and I've personally been the person taking many of her radar readings while Austin is throwing with her. The last time I did the readings, it was sitting 56-57-58 and hitting 59.


When it comes to softball throwing, I really believe that girls with reasonable strength should be throwing 60+. I also do not understand the wrist flicks... and I know girls don't know how to use a hammer. But I do see a huge carry over into pushing, out front, elbow-pain inducing mechanics with a lot of softball players. I dream of seeing girls throwing very athletically because they know what they are working on, know how to repeat it, know how to train it and can be deliberate about their work.

 

[Momo'sDad]

If anything, it can help a player feel the ball come off her fingers. But that only needs to be reinforced so much.

This conversation is above my pay grade, so I cannot speak for any other coaches, but what you stated is the reason why we do it for a couple of minutes during some of our warmups. Being able to execute good, solid throws often requires knowing what it feels like at release and for my team, this is an exercise intended to help them learn that feeling.

Note: My players are 8-10 years old and there's great variation in their experience levels. If all the girls threw as well as the best players do, there's a chance we'd never do these at all. I wouldn't expect to see a 12u TB team doing them.

 

[RichK]

Austin and Tewks,

Thanks for the responses. Sorry but had to give you some hassle from over here in the softball world : > Hope it was helpful.

There's not enough good info on throwing, it always ends up being about elbow height and where to point the ball. Hodge stuff always gets mentioned but you can't find it anywhere. Jaeger's stuff demos long toss but not so much drills to promote mechanics. So the throwing posts you've done at AB Athletics are all great and very helpful.

I'd love to read more along the same lines.

 

[WinThemAll]

The thing with wrist flicks is to feel the ball come directly off the fingers for spin. When we do wrist flicks, it is with no movement of the forearm/elbow—a flick of the wrist to get the ball to spin up and high, almost like shooting a basketball. I want to feel it off my the pads of my fingers. I want height. It is an isolation drill to feel it. It should not take very much effort and is done with out much force. We do about 10 each. In the past we have done wrist flicks lying on the floor again to work on the spin (with face masks on ).

Why do I care about spin? The straighter the ball goes to the target, the easier it is to catch. I do not want it to tail-off.

No wonder the elbow hurts if you are doing it like the linked video. His forearm is going back with the wrist and then snapping forward with what looks like quite a bit for force.