Umpires that "coach" players

[BretMan]

As a coach you should be happy when an umpire gives that kind of direction to your team. Would you prefer he calls the girl out for running outside the lane, or out for not having her foot in the box, or award the other team a base because your catcher is a little to close.

The potential downside here...What if the umpire is giving your players BAD advice?

There's no rule that says a batter-runner MUST run inside the three-foot running lane. So I hope that no umpire would ever tell a player that.

There are rules that say the batter must be positioned within the batter's box BEFORE a pitch can be thrown. I certainly hope that an umpire would never call a batter out for being out of the box BEFORE the pitch is thrown.

A catcher being too close is both a safety and a rule issue that we are specifically to address. But no umpire should ever award a base just because a catcher is "too close".

And what if...A coach takes exception to the advice you're giving or even the fact that you're speaking to one of his players? Now you have a bigger problem on your hands- a ticked off coach. I've seen it happen before.

What if you give your "friendly advice" to a player on team "A", but fail to do the same for a player on team "B"...then the player on team "B" subsequently commits a rule violation that you averted the other player from making with your advice? You have- whether intended or not- given one team an advantage that the other team was not offered. Somebody might not be too happy about that!

Of course, no umpire should ever be telling a player how to hold a bat, bunt the ball or deliver a pitch. But if you think "some" coaching advice from the umpire is okay, how much is too much? There aren't any guidelines to tell us some things are okay to tell players, while other things are not. Where do you draw the line?

Our training draws a pretty clear line for us: Don't coach the players!

 

[darken]

Our training draws a pretty clear line for us: Don't coach the players!

I agree with this 100% for the reasons you cited.

There is one particular "senior" umpire in our area who does a lot of younger level games. You can always count on him approaching each coach during or after the game with some compliments or advice. Most times his advice is good, sometimes it's completely wrong. Either way, I thank this gentleman for his time, nod, and smile. I'm a coach - I can distinguish between good and bad advice. Most 10 YOs don't yet have the ability to do that - especially in the middle of a game, so I would appreciate umpires sticking to what they do best and leaving the coaching to me or one of the other coaches.

As many have said, safety issues are a different story. If a player is putting themselves at imminent risk of injury, I would want an umpire or even an opposing coach to point that out to the player on the spot.

 

[MsDinosaur]

The only time I remember seeing an umpire coach my daughter last season in 10U was to explain why the batter wasn't out even though she had caught the ball. (Foul tip with less than 2 strikes) My daughter had initiated the conversation by asking about it. He didn't seem offended at all; he explained it to her and gave her a friendly pat on the helmet at the end. It seemed totally ok to me.

DD, however, was still talking in the car on the way home about wanting that out. She felt that because she had to shoot her hand way up and to the side to make the catch, it didn't go directly to her mitt and should have counted. :-D

 

[BretMan]

I wouldn't even consider answering a question about a playing rule, especially a question that was initiated by the player, as "coaching".

 

[tghorley]

Some times an umpire can "coach" a player by just making a correct call. This past weekend, a runner was on third base with one out. Slow roller is hit to the second baseman who was playing in. The 3b runner breaks for home and the catcher was blocking the plate without the ball (ball and runner were not going to arrive at the same time). The runner runs into the catcher and bounces over the plate, never touching it. Now, umpires calls safe! After the ball arrives at home plate, coaches and players for the defensive team begins to shout to tag her. Catcher tags "safe" runner and and then umpire calls the runner out.

The call of safe was correct, but apparently in the umpires reasoning it was because she was not tagged with ball in possession (should have not been called if he knew the runner did not tag home plate as the runner would have no reason to try to go back to touch the plate). Catchers interference should have been the reason and time called. He then should have explained it to the coach who was a hot head and probably been thrown out of the game as he was later on another call.

Offensive coaches never protested as they were concerned about the base runner who had been hurt. Later on in the game, the catcher was still blocking the plate without the ball but did get out of the way when she realized there was not going to be a play at home. So the catcher never learned anything and I hope in the future someone corrects her before someone gets hurt badly.

On a side note, the runner was alright after some medical attention on her ankle. She also got her revenge when she knocked in the winning run in an international tie breaker.

 

[Ajaywill]

The only time I remember seeing an umpire coach my daughter last season in 10U was to explain why the batter wasn't out even though she had caught the ball. (Foul tip with less than 2 strikes) My daughter had initiated the conversation by asking about it. He didn't seem offended at all; he explained it to her and gave her a friendly pat on the helmet at the end. It seemed totally ok to me.

DD, however, was still talking in the car on the way home about wanting that out. She felt that because she had to shoot her hand way up and to the side to make the catch, it didn't go directly to her mitt and should have counted. :-D

Hmmmm...I think your daughter may be correct!

 

[Ajaywill]

Some times an umpire can "coach" a player by just making a correct call. This past weekend, a runner was on third base with one out. Slow roller is hit to the second baseman who was playing in. The 3b runner breaks for home and the catcher was blocking the plate without the ball (ball and runner were not going to arrive at the same time). The runner runs into the catcher and bounces over the plate, never touching it. Now, umpires calls safe! After the ball arrives at home plate, coaches and players for the defensive team begins to shout to tag her. Catcher tags "safe" runner and and then umpire calls the runner out.

The call of safe was correct, but apparently in the umpires reasoning it was because she was not tagged with ball in possession (should have not been called if he knew the runner did not tag home plate as the runner would have no reason to try to go back to touch the plate). Catchers interference should have been the reason and time called. He then should have explained it to the coach who was a hot head and probably been thrown out of the game as he was later on another call.

Offensive coaches never protested as they were concerned about the base runner who had been hurt. Later on in the game, the catcher was still blocking the plate without the ball but did get out of the way when she realized there was not going to be a play at home. So the catcher never learned anything and I hope in the future someone corrects her before someone gets hurt badly.

On a side note, the runner was alright after some medical attention on her ankle. She also got her revenge when she knocked in the winning run in an international tie breaker.

Sounds to me that we have an umpire and a parent/fan here that need some "coaching"........

 

[Comp]

Some times an umpire can "coach" a player by just making a correct call. This past weekend, a runner was on third base with one out. Slow roller is hit to the second baseman who was playing in. The 3b runner breaks for home and the catcher was blocking the plate without the ball (ball and runner were not going to arrive at the same time). The runner runs into the catcher and bounces over the plate, never touching it. Now, umpires calls safe! After the ball arrives at home plate, coaches and players for the defensive team begins to shout to tag her. Catcher tags "safe" runner and and then umpire calls the runner out.

The call of safe was correct, but apparently in the umpires reasoning it was because she was not tagged with ball in possession (should have not been called if he knew the runner did not tag home plate as the runner would have no reason to try to go back to touch the plate). Catchers interference should have been the reason and time called. He then should have explained it to the coach who was a hot head and probably been thrown out of the game as he was later on another call.

Offensive coaches never protested as they were concerned about the base runner who had been hurt. Later on in the game, the catcher was still blocking the plate without the ball but did get out of the way when she realized there was not going to be a play at home. So the catcher never learned anything and I hope in the future someone corrects her before someone gets hurt badly.

On a side note, the runner was alright after some medical attention on her ankle. She also got her revenge when she knocked in the winning run in an international tie breaker.

If the play occured exactly as described, the umpire was not correct in how he called the play. If the ball was not in posession of the catcher, obstruction should have been called and indicated. If there was no tag on the runner, there was no call to be made and no reason to call safe. After runner was tagged, play should have been called dead as the obstruction prevented the runner from touching the plate resulting in the tag. Home plate should then have been awarded to the runner. But, the runner is still required to touch the base even after the award. If the runner were to leave the field of play without ever touching the base, then the defense could have appealed the missed base.

 

[tghorley]

If the play occured exactly as described, the umpire was not correct in how he called the play. If the ball was not in posession of the catcher, obstruction should have been called and indicated. If there was no tag on the runner, there was no call to be made and no reason to call safe. After runner was tagged, play should have been called dead as the obstruction prevented the runner from touching the plate resulting in the tag. Home plate should then have been awarded to the runner. But, the runner is still required to touch the base even after the award. If the runner were to leave the field of play without ever touching the base, then the defense could have appealed the missed base.

Yes, the play occurred as described as I saw it in person and a parent had videoed the play and showed it to me after the game. I was not involved with either team as it was a game I was watching in between by GDs games. Thanks Comp for correcting my interference call as it should have been obstruction, I always mix those two up. And thanks for reminding me about the runner touching the base after the award, I had forgotten about that.

And yes Ajaywill, I am always needing coaching, instruction, direction, prayers, etc. The only time I want to stop learning is when I cease to exist!

 

[chinamigarden]

After seeing both teams warm up batting, an umpire told me (coach) that all the teams do too much batting practice before games and then don't have anything left by game time. I took that to heart because I secretly agreed with him (from my own superstitions and practices when young). So I reduced the warm ups. Everyone got mad at me, but our team batting average was really good.

I've seen plenty of teams win the warm up but lose the game.

I don't mind an ump pulling a coach aside after a game, or before and giving them the wisdom of his/her experience. But to tell a kid or a coach during a game I'm not a fan.