Rule on Correcting Count (NFHS)

[MightyMO]

Now that DD is in college I take in some of the local high school games as an observer and something happened at one last week that made me want to get clarification here.

During a rather long at bat (and after the batter had fouled off three or four pitches in a row) the away team's scorekeeper started to make a ruckus and went to their dugout to ask their coach to call time. He did so and the two of them started arguing that the batter should be out. Of course the batter couldn't be out after a foul ball but the scorekeeper was arguing that the batter actually struck out before she fouled the last few off. She (the scorekeeper) thought that the batter went to the dugout and the next batter was up. That's why it took her a few pitches to say something. The umpires got together for at least five minutes and discussed it before they let the at bat continue and the batter walked on the next pitch.

Honestly, I thought the batter was out when the scorekeeper did, but assumed since she stayed up to bat that I had the count wrong in my head. In any case, is it possible for the umpire to decide he counted wrong and call her out after she has seen additional pitches? Also, is the home book official in NFHS? If so, why even entertain the away team scorekeeper? Why not just ask home book what they have and move on if the umpires have the same count?

 

[canyonjoe]

Now that DD is in college I take in some of the local high school games as an observer and something happened at one last week that made me want to get clarification here.

During a rather long at bat (and after the batter had fouled off three or four pitches in a row) the away team's scorekeeper started to make a ruckus and went to their dugout to ask their coach to call time. He did so and the two of them started arguing that the batter should be out. Of course the batter couldn't be out after a foul ball but the scorekeeper was arguing that the batter actually struck out before she fouled the last few off. She (the scorekeeper) thought that the batter went to the dugout and the next batter was up. That's why it took her a few pitches to say something. The umpires got together for at least five minutes and discussed it before they let the at bat continue and the batter walked on the next pitch.

Honestly, I thought the batter was out when the scorekeeper did, but assumed since she stayed up to bat that I had the count wrong in my head. In any case, is it possible for the umpire to decide he counted wrong and call her out after she has seen additional pitches? Also, is the home book official in NFHS? If so, why even entertain the away team scorekeeper? Why not just ask home book what they have and move on if the umpires have the same count?

I'm not sure on the rule on this but just because the home book says something doesn't mean it's right. If the away team can show the home book is wrong it can be rectified.

 

[MightyMO]

I'm not sure on the rule on this but just because the home book says something doesn't mean it's right. If the away team can show the home book is wrong it can be rectified.

How would either book prove the other wrong? Away would say, "She had three strikes", and home book would say, "She has two strikes". If you are going to use a book as a reference for umpires, then wouldn't one have to be official?

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Generally it would be correctable until a pitch was thrown to a subsequent batter.

This thread covers it: https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/umpire-has-the-count-wrong-then-what.37754/

 

[MightyMO]

Generally it would be correctable until a pitch was thrown to a subsequent batter.

This thread covers it: https://www.discussfastpitch.com/threads/umpire-has-the-count-wrong-then-what.37754/

From an umpire perspective, would it just be a meeting of the two reviewing the at bat and discovering they were wrong that would make them change it? Also, what if a runner was on base and had stolen as base or even home? Would that runner be sent back based on the pitch they stole on if it was after the missed strike three?

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

From an umpire perspective, would it just be a meeting of the two reviewing the at bat and discovering they were wrong that would make them change it? Also, what if a runner was on base and had stolen as base or even home? Would that runner be sent back based on the pitch they stole on if it was after the missed strike three?

From my perspective, without video to review, depending on all the things that happened, it would be extremely difficult to talk to my partner and conclusively reconstruct the at bat (especially if the books didn't agree). But, assuming there either was video (official video, recorded for the purpose of official video review), or we could conclusively decide the count was wrong, before a pitch is thrown to the next batter, you would have to "fix it" which could include sending runners back, etc. It would be a horrible, no good, very bad mess.

 

[canyonjoe]

How would either book prove the other wrong? Away would say, "She had three strikes", and home book would say, "She has two strikes". If you are going to use a book as a reference for umpires, then wouldn't one have to be official?

Maybe in this case it's hard but there are times when the home book has the wrong score because scorer doesn't know what they are doing. Example a third out on a force play that they counted. If you show that it's wrong the ump will at least look at it. Or if the Home book shows batting out of order because they forgot to mark the last out in previous inning. Home Book is official but it's not just automatically correct.