The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[riseball]

unless it's delanie gourley pitching .

somehow i still can't fathom how Tim Walton would allow such blatant illegal pitching to exist in his team. anything to win, i guess?

The WCWS is much more than one game. Tim is the poster boy for these type of antics.

 

[ANNASDAD]

If the worst case scenario is they print a rule in the rule book (but they don't enforce it) I can't see why you wouldn't teach it. You pitch faster, you can get recruited, and can get a scholarship.

If the coaches recruiting these kids don't care, the umpires aren't enforcing the rule, it would seem to me that if you are not teaching this you are doing your daughter a disservice.

I would really like to hear the other side of this argument...

First off, I'm not a pitching coach! My DD's PC who is the PC at a local college here in our town once told me when they face a team with a pitcher who leaps or replants, they say nothing! He says they lose power and have been taught wrong from the start. He swears that a girl with proper mechanics and stays on the ground will always pitch harder then if she were to pitch illegal, and his team is trained to keep their mouth shut when they do face an illegal pitcher.

 

[Snotbubbles]

You pitch faster, really? Not seeing how you got there.

Not a mathematician so I may be off here but:

M = (D/T) x .682

M = Speed in m.p.h.
D = Distance
T = Travel time

With all things being equal, if a replanter releases the ball closer, the distance and travel time are lower, ergo, the batters reaction time is decreased making the pitch appear faster (even if it technically isn't). A player throwing from 43 ft would have to throw the ball 69mph to have the ball get to the plate in .42 seconds. A player throwing the ball from 40 ft would have to throw the ball 65mph to have the same travel time.

 

[Rocketech1]

You pitch faster, really? Not seeing how you got there.

So if it doesn't help with speed, where's is the advantage for replanters? As was shown in the photos of KB and Silkwood, the pitchers DID NOT get any closer to the front of the circle with their stride foot because of the replant. If they crow hopped like the men pitchers (where the stride foot doesn't come down until after the replant), I can see where you could get closer to the front of the circle but all of these women pitchers get no closer to the batter after the initial push off the pitching plate.

IMO - there may be some additional torgue that replanters get which could help with speed. Other than that, I don't see the advantage.

 

[jfitch12]

To me the mechanical advantage, if any, is an interesting question. Putting aside whether rules should be enforced as written (which is hard to argue with), and whether leapers/replanters would fare worse if they had to abide the rules (which they presumably would, at least in the short term), what benefit is gained from a leap, replant, and second push? Is it just decreased distance from release to the plate (which is obviously no small advantage), or is there more, and if so, what is that added mechanical advantage?

My DD has never replanted (and I don't think could do it if she tried), but she has spent a lot of time working on an earlier push, speeding up the back leg, ultimately leading to being "stacked" with the knee under the hip at release. For those that leap and replant, I don't see anything resembling the sequence that my DD is now trying to achieve. Does replanting allow you to throw harder because there is now additional ground-reaction force from the second push, or something else?

 

[Rocketech1]

Not a mathematician so I may be off here but:

M = (D/T) x .682

M = Speed in m.p.h.
D = Distance
T = Travel time

With all things being equal, if a replanter releases the ball closer, the distance and travel time are lower, ergo, the batters reaction time is decreased making the pitch appear faster (even if it technically isn't). A player throwing from 43 ft would have to throw the ball 69mph to have the ball get to the plate in .42 seconds. A player throwing the ball from 40 ft would have to throw the ball 65mph to have the same travel time.

Your analysis is flawed in at least two areas a) NO replanters are getting an extra three feet of distance (40 feet vs 43 feet), remember these pitchers are not Crow Hopping like an outfielder throwing to home plate, they are merely replanting but the stride foot is already on the ground and not getting closer to the front of the circle; and b) when the pitcher releases the ball from the front of the circle, the distance is 35 feet (43 feet minus the 8 feet radius of the pitching plate to the front of the circle).

I would even argue that leapers and replanters are using flawed and inefficient mechanics putting them at a disadvantage compared to leap and drag pitchers pitching within the rules.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I would even argue that leapers and replanters are using flawed and inefficient mechanics putting them at a disadvantage compared to leap and drag pitchers pitching within the rules.

I am sure the rules against leaping and replanting were implemented to help the pitchers pitch more efficiently.

/sarcasm_off

 

[FastPitchCat]

Your analysis is flawed in at least two areas a) NO replanters are getting an extra three feet of distance (40 feet vs 43 feet), remember these pitchers are not Crow Hopping like an outfielder throwing to home plate, they are merely replanting but the stride foot is already on the ground and not getting closer to the front of the circle; and b) when the pitcher releases the ball from the front of the circle, the distance is 35 feet (43 feet minus the 8 feet radius of the pitching plate to the front of the circle).

I would even argue that leapers and replanters are using flawed and inefficient mechanics putting them at a disadvantage compared to leap and drag pitchers pitching within the rules.

the mere fact that leapers have both feet in the air is already an advantage. simple physics. there's much less friction dragging both feet through the air compared to dragging one on the ground.
that by itself allows leapers to get further out than those who don't (not to say that non-leapers can't cover that distance too)

can you imagine a long jumper who has to drag one foot on the ground? how much less distance will he/she cover?

for the drive foot bearing weight a 2nd time and being able to reload and push again also gives them an advantage. it's almost like being able to repitch at a closer distance.

 

[riseball]

So if it doesn't help with speed, where's is the advantage for replanters? As was shown in the photos of KB and Silkwood, the pitchers DID NOT get any closer to the front of the circle with their stride foot because of the replant. If they crow hopped like the men pitchers (where the stride foot doesn't come down until after the replant), I can see where you could get closer to the front of the circle but all of these women pitchers get no closer to the batter after the initial push off the pitching plate.

IMO - there may be some additional torgue that replanters get which could help with speed. Other than that, I don't see the advantage.

I think that the premise that they do this by design to gain advantage is giving them way too much credit. Plain and simple they learned to pitch with poor mechanics, then due to raw athletic ability they found success. Surrounded by enablers including parents, coaches, and especially umpires their whole career they never learned to pitch using a natural, legal motion. They jump in the air and throw open their hips very early to clear a path for the ball. The result is the contortion that are their mechanics where you have the stride foot facing forward and the plant foot facing rearward. This is very common at the lower levels where some are still taught not to open naturally, to stay closed and avoid any type of BI. Kelly Barnhill is a very powerful athlete and I have no doubt that she could have been just as successful or more so had she learned to pitch with a natural, smooth motion. Which is why I have always said that skippies are successful despite their poor mechanics, not because of them. For every Kelly Barnhill, Alexis Silkwood, Sara Nevins, etc. that is successful there are thousands more that that are never successful due to their poor mechanics.

 

[FastPitchCat]

if the added distance provided by not keeping a foot on the ground doesn't provide an advantage, why is MLB analyzing this?

https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-discussions/30926-crow-hopping.html