The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[diamond14]

"The bottom-line is the pitching rules are in limbo and need to be fixed ASAP"

Seems to me that the rules are fine for those who follow them. Made the point earlier, Gourley is not replanting and is as successful as Barnhill.
So why do the rulebreakers always need the rules changed so they become "legal". Do the damn hardwork to stay within the rules.
Now Im ranting!

 

[riseball]

I am behind home plate in Columbia watching Gourley put on a clinic. Working 57-63 and making the Gamecocks look silly. If you have legit skills you can pitch legally and be extremely successful.

 

[marriard]

"The bottom-line is the pitching rules are in limbo and need to be fixed ASAP"

Seems to me that the rules are fine for those who follow them. Made the point earlier, Gourley is not replanting and is as successful as Barnhill.
So why do the rulebreakers always need the rules changed so they become "legal". Do the damn hardwork to stay within the rules.
Now Im ranting!

I disagree in a way. The rule as written is broken which is one of the reasons this is not being addressed on the field. ASA and all the other rule committees have been kicking this can down the road for years and pretending there isn't an issue.

The issue is simple - the penalty for an illegal pitch is out of line with the infringement and so umpires don't want to call it. If the penalty was JUST a ball in the count, then it is a much easier to call to make. The runners advancing makes it a really heavy penalty with runners on and if you call it only with no runners on base, then that doesn't work either as now you are situationally making a call. As an umpire I don't want to walk a run in or move a runner into scoring position - I have been in many conversations about this over the past few years. Change the penalty and I believe the situation get at least 80% better immediately.

In the majority of rules, the penalty reflects what happens in the play. What has some base runner on 3rd got to do with a pitcher leaping or any other illegal action? Why do they get a free base?

It seems to be some sort of holdover from baseball's balk rule where the base runners are part of the call (no idea if this is the case or not - before my time).

 

[4 girl's dad]

I disagree in a way. The rule as written is broken which is one of the reasons this is not being addressed on the field. ASA and all the other rule committees have been kicking this can down the road for years and pretending there isn't an issue.

The issue is simple - the penalty for an illegal pitch is out of line with the infringement and so umpires don't want to call it. If the penalty was JUST a ball in the count, then it is a much easier to call to make. The runners advancing makes it a really heavy penalty with runners on and if you call it only with no runners on base, then that doesn't work either as now you are situationally making a call. As an umpire I don't want to walk a run in or move a runner into scoring position - I have been in many conversations about this over the past few years. Change the penalty and I believe the situation get at least 80% better immediately.

In the majority of rules, the penalty reflects what happens in the play. What has some base runner on 3rd got to do with a pitcher leaping or any other illegal action? Why do they get a free base?

It seems to be some sort of holdover from baseball's balk rule where the base runners are part of the call (no idea if this is the case or not - before my time).

The problem is, that it can be manipulated if the penalty is only a ball. What stops a pitcher from leaping or whatever, for 2 straight balls, but at a different look for the batter, whether it's speed of just a different movement? That's seems heavily pitcher biased.

Why not just teach the correct mechincs to follow the current rules? It obviously can be done.

Not bickering, just asking.

 

[marriard]

The problem is, that it can be manipulated if the penalty is only a ball. What stops a pitcher from leaping or whatever, for 2 straight balls, but at a different look for the batter, whether it's speed of just a different movement? That's seems heavily pitcher biased.

Why not just teach the correct mechincs to follow the current rules? It obviously can be done.

Not bickering, just asking.

What will stop it is the umpire being comfortable calling it when they see it every time without having to think about game situation either at the call or possibly later in the game. If EVERY time you leap it gets called, then it becomes ineffective as a tactic. Right now it is being manipulated - there are many pitchers who can pitch legally who then use the leap as way to generate a few more mph to see if they can get away with it. I saw Barnhill do this last year multiple times as a strike out pitch when they played away... often she would be legal and around 65mph early in a bat, but on 2 strikes she would go back to leaping and all of a sudden find 70mph.

Umpires wont make the call as the penalty is an overreach - which means every time they do make the call at the moment, it is a 'big call'. It vastly effects the game in a major way from that point on. Every time there is a runner on, there is the potential of free bases. Coaches naturally overact because they also sense it is a big call. If it is 'just a ball' then as an umpire I can call it just like many other calls without it having to be a 'big thing' every time.


As for teaching the 'correct mechanics', that is tough for a number of reasons. First, no one can agree on what they are or how they should be taught. There is a style heavily favored here on DFP (that I believe in as well), but not everyone is on here and lets face it, not everyone agrees with it. Secondly not everyone has access to someone who teach even bad mechanics nor can many people afford to get a PC. In my area, even very, very bad Pitching Coaches are fully booked. I have no doubt I could start calling myself a pitching coach tomorrow and be fully booked by the end of the month.

 

[Rocketech1]

Marriard - you bring up another good point, the penalty is so severe (all baserunners move up a base) that umpires are extremely reluctant to call an IP. Combine that with the governing bodies have different rules for different associations. For example, in high school the pitcher doesn't have to start with both feet on the pitching plate. Other rules are so arbitrary like you don't have to drag the pivot foot along the ground if there is a hole in front of home plate. What umpire is going to determine whether or not there is a deep enough hole to let the pitcher leap? In addition, many games, especially at the younger ages only have 1 umpire on the field. How are they suppose to watch the pitch for balls and strikes, watch the feet if the pitcher for subtle "leaps", and watch base runners for leaving early, etc all at the same time? No wonder umpires don't call IPs, at all levels of play. Time to seriously fix the problem.

 

[riseball]

...Umpires wont make the call as the penalty is an overreach - which means every time they do make the call at the moment, it is a 'big call'. It vastly effects the game in a major way from that point on. Every time there is a runner on, there is the potential of free bases. Coaches naturally overact because they also sense it is a big call. If it is 'just a ball' then as an umpire I can call it just like many other calls without it having to be a 'big thing' every time...

If this were true you would see it called regularly with no runners on base which unfortunately is not the case. Actually if the rule is applied correctly the penalty is very appropriate as they would have every opportunity to correct their behavior before there were any runners.

 

[marriard]

If this were true you would see it called regularly with no runners on base which unfortunately is not the case. Actually if the rule is applied correctly the penalty is very appropriate as they would have every opportunity to correct their behavior before there were any runners.

I have to disagree with this. Once you make a call, the expectation is you are going to make that call again if it happens again and not pass on making the call because something has changed in the game (i.e. there is now runners on base). Now I have some coach in my ear constantly talking about "you made that call earlier" or I get a REALLY obvious call with a runner on third in the bottom of the seventh that I have now forced myself into a position where whatever I call is going to cause an issue. I am setting myself up for failure. If I am being assessed it is going to be in the report and I am going to be marked down.

Having to make 'situational calls' is something no umpire really wants to do, even though you may well do so on occasion.

 

[cuzmail]

To me it's very simple.

If you have a rule, then enforce it.
If you won't enforce a rule, then remove it.

Once removed, everyone can benefit instead of a select few.

 

[riseball]

I have to disagree with this. Once you make a call, the expectation is you are going to make that call again if it happens again and not pass on making the call because something has changed in the game (i.e. there is now runners on base). Now I have some coach in my ear constantly talking about "you made that call earlier" or I get a REALLY obvious call with a runner on third in the bottom of the seventh that I have now forced myself into a position where whatever I call is going to cause an issue. I am setting myself up for failure. If I am being assessed it is going to be in the report and I am going to be marked down.

Having to make 'situational calls' is something no umpire really wants to do, even though you may well do so on occasion.

My point is make the call first time, every time and it will not become a big call. The pitcher will pitch legally or will leave the game. In the case of Barnhill who is illegal on every pitch, call it immediately, set the tone and let Tim know you are serious about your job.