Swinging at first pitch vs working the count

[ncgolf]

What are your hitters doing in the warm up circle/on deck? Chatting with their BF's? Shouldn't they be looking at the pitcher warming up? Shouldn't you the coach/dad be looking at the pitcher as she warms up. I tell my DD first 2 strikes are hers. The last strike your hitting the umpires strike. I don't care what the count is first pitch that you see that you like swing. Of course sometimes game situations dictates when you can swing or take a pitch.

A little socratic teaching.
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.
The phrase Socratic questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse

Maybe they have to prove they can be "selectively aggressive". Our girls hit below 200 if one of the two first balls is in play. That was a 7 game span .. not hundreds like you can find in a baseball encyclopedia. They are better off fouling off and at least getting to a third pitch. My opinion on my DD's team was they wanted to be "selectively aggressive" but did not have the skill yet to do it. How to teach that thought is the real skill.

 

[ncgolf]

What are your hitters doing in the warm up circle/on deck? Chatting with their BF's? Shouldn't they be looking at the pitcher warming up? Shouldn't you the coach/dad be looking at the pitcher as she warms up. I tell my DD first 2 strikes are hers. The last strike your hitting the umpires strike. I don't care what the count is first pitch that you see that you like swing. Of course sometimes game situations dictates when you can swing or take a pitch.

A little socratic teaching.
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and discussion between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.
The phrase Socratic questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse

I am just a dad who kept the books ... I manage a group of people who are responsible for data and so numbers are just something I enjoy. My DD is a deep count hitter but developed this over time. She by far sees the most pitches on the team and bats 400 with ob close to 600 due to walks.

What I am trying to help are all the 240 hitters on our team who hit 240 for a reason .. its not mechanical IMO but there is not a goal of getting on base, you get a good job for a first pitch two hopper .. in my view that is a failure at bat. My DD's goal is to get on base however she can .. hit, walk, hbp (4 times this year).

 

[CoogansBluff]

Our girls hit below 200 if one of the two first balls is in play.

Over how many at-bats? And which hitters contributed to those at-bats?

 

[softballphreak]

See the ball, hit the ball. If you're getting too many one- or two-hoppers to the infield it's time to work on tilt and bat angle. You probably have batters swinging level or down.

 

[Sweet Lou]

Not sure if there should be a goal of seeing more pitches/working the count.

Here are the top 10 batters in the American League in pitches seen per plate appearance:

.258 – Mike Napoli
.211 – Adam Dunn
.303 - Jason Kipnis
.271 – Carlos Santana
.213 - Mark Reynolds
.224 – Josh Willingham
.320 – Joe Mauer
.252 – Jose Bautista
,232 – Brian Dozier
.280 – Brett Gardner

Fairly random.

Dan Uggla is 4th in the NL. He’s hitting .197.

Look at their BB rates they are all very high. They all have pretty good OBP despite poor average. The top 7 also have excellent iSLG (isolated slugging is SLG - AVE -- that is a lot of their hits are for extra bases)

 

[ncgolf]

Over how many at-bats? And which hitters contributed to those at-bats?

Small sample size ... 7 games over 1 tournament. I tracked all hitters and it proved out whether it was leadoff or last batter. First pitch contact into play led into a larger number of easy ground balls. Both high average and low average hitters had the same outcomes .. though over a long season I admit the theory may not hold. I could have tracked the anomaly of the season.

I agree with being an aggressive hitter but not at the expense of not getting on base. My opinion is the goal is to get on base. Getting on base helps the next hitter and the next. It sure seems when lead off gets on that runner will score quite often. I think there are good stats on that.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Small sample size ... 7 games over 1 tournament. I tracked all hitters and it proved out whether it was leadoff or last batter. First pitch contact into play led into a larger number of easy ground balls. Both high average and low average hitters had the same outcomes .. though over a long season I admit the theory may not hold. I could have tracked the anomaly of the season.

I agree with being an aggressive hitter but not at the expense of not getting on base. My opinion is the goal is to get on base. Getting on base helps the next hitter and the next. It sure seems when lead off gets on that runner will score quite often. I think there are good stats on that.

Thanks, good points. ...

But still would like to know # of at-bats for those putting the ball in play on first two pitches. Was it 1-for-5? 2-for-10? 4-for-20?

 

[obbay]

As Ted has said, hitting a round ball with a round bat is the hardest thing to do in sports.
Bat is in contact with the ball for 1/2000 of a second, over a distance of 3/4" ( I think this refers to hitting a 55mph pitch)

Being able to hit well doesn't directly translate into being able to hit the first pitch well. As you all know, hitting is very complicated and players (hopefully) learn more with experience. Therefore, I cannot say that the hitting strategies of accomplished professionals should be literally adopted by younger players. When talking about the best college players in the WCWS - if batters are going for the first pitch, keep in mind they are at just about the highest level of the sport AND at the end of the season. In March and April are they swinging at the first pitch?

IMHO- players should be taught to work the count and not be afraid of 2 strikes or striking out. Go Zone and reducing selectivity with each strike is a key fundamental to good hitting. Too many batters treat strikes like a lit fuse, becoming more panicky with each pitch.

HC on one of our U18 teams keeps sliding into this " get aggressive at the plate by going for the first pitch you get because it'll probably be a strike/ best pitch you'll get" mindset. The results I've seen from this are a lot of 1 pitch outs with IF pop ups. Also a lot of quick innings and less work for the opposing pitcher. Some of the girls he has doing this have a problem because they are not patient enough to begin with and this just validates their 1-pitch at-bats. Another problem is the girls who like to go deep in the count aren't allowed to get into their comfort zone where they have demonstrated success. So to me it ensures failure.

 

[ncgolf]

Thanks, good points. ...

But still would like to know # of at-bats for those putting the ball in play on first two pitches. Was it 1-for-5? 2-for-10? 4-for-20?

I dont remember exactly, I dont have the books but 11/50 or 11/53 comes to mind with about 40ish being groundouts .. not too many popups or flyouts.

 

[ncgolf]

As Ted has said, hitting a round ball with a round bat is the hardest thing to do in sports.
Bat is in contact with the ball for 1/2000 of a second, over a distance of 3/4" ( I think this refers to hitting a 55mph pitch)

Being able to hit well doesn't directly translate into being able to hit the first pitch well. As you all know, hitting is very complicated and players (hopefully) learn more with experience. Therefore, I cannot say that the hitting strategies of accomplished professionals should be literally adopted by younger players. When talking about the best college players in the WCWS - if batters are going for the first pitch, keep in mind they are at just about the highest level of the sport AND at the end of the season. In March and April are they swinging at the first pitch?

IMHO- players should be taught to work the count and not be afraid of 2 strikes or striking out. Go Zone and reducing selectivity with each strike is a key fundamental to good hitting. Too many batters treat strikes like a lit fuse, becoming more panicky with each pitch.

HC on one of our U18 teams keeps sliding into this " get aggressive at the plate by going for the first pitch you get because it'll probably be a strike/ best pitch you'll get" mindset. The results I've seen from this are a lot of 1 pitch outs with IF pop ups. Also a lot of quick innings and less work for the opposing pitcher. Some of the girls he has doing this have a problem because they are not patient enough to begin with and this just validates their 1-pitch at-bats. Another problem is the girls who like to go deep in the count aren't allowed to get into their comfort zone where they have demonstrated success. So to me it ensures failure.

I totally agree with your observation ... girls need to be taught how to be aggressive so they are dangerous as aggressive hitters. Aggressive doesnt mean swinging and just putting the ball into play. It means giving yourself the best chance to have a successful outcome.