Swinging at first pitch vs working the count

[Jim]

I love it.

He is so good because he has a huge area of coverage that he can do the ultimate damage on.

Some hitters can only do damage when all of the planets align and they get the "perfect" pitch with the "perfect" timing and are in the "perfect" count that they "worked" and they actually make good contact... Those are not good hitters.

 

[obbay]

I Think this is the new "Linear vs Rotational" argument.

Jim- so what you're saying is millionaires hit better when they hit with less than two strikes- (I'm just kidding!)

seriously though, I believe there is truth to both sides of this discussion and the ultimate truth is one size does not fit all, so choose your plan wisely. Smart at-bats. Taking pitches and going deep in the count is not passive if done correctly, it's cerebral. As the father of a pitcher, I love to see the other team going for the first pitches! they can get pretty far thru a game and still not know what she has.

I have seen both schools of thought applied to High School and younger players and have formed my opinions on what I have seen happen, not what could happen or what MLB does.

- Mediocre pitchers cruising into the 3rd inning on 8 pitches thanks to the "first pitch is the best pitch" philosophy.
- Hitting is contagious and you don't hit if you don't swing.
- A game that started out offensively strong (with a close score) suddenly goes dead after an 'aggressive at-bat" philosophy was implemented to 'turn up the heat".
- A good pitcher flustered in the 4th inning starts "pitching BP" because she's had to work so hard to get this far. it's either physical or mental but she has lost whatever edge she had. She still looks good, but the batters have created a shift in momentum.

Know your players and work with "the army you have" rather than the one you want to have.

 

[Rocketech1]

Remember too that umpires in MLB seem to have a small strike zone compared to fastpitch who's strike zone is fairly large, especially for the younger age groups. The larger ball in fastpitch also helps to hit the corners better for called strikes. Combine that with the exceptional control that MLB pitchers have to work outside the strike zone and to be able to place the ball with consistency, and it makes sense that MLB batters can be more selective at the plate. However, in fastpitch, I tell my daughter that if you like the first pitch, then attack the ball. I have heard former baseball players who are now fastpitch coaches say "never swing at the first pitch", "never swing at a change-up unless you have 2 strikes on you", or "work the pitcher deep in the count" but I have never agreed with this philosophy.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Those coaches drive me nuts. Because if I'm calling pitches guess what they are going to get. As those young kids get older , pitchers can work the spots and as a hitter your in the hole. Those baseball coaches you are talking about will wiseup that softball is different game in terms of coaching. That small ball is a big piece of the game and with 2 strikes you have let the defense move back and not worry as much about the bunt. Jim is correct in terms of players that can only hit the perfect pitch. Coaches and pitchers wise up to them and they will get a steady diet of a pitch they don't like. With tracking devices such as ISCORE ( we now use in high school) it will id trends. In Nationals I watched a coach tell a player not to swing at a change up and she got three straight change up strikes. You would think someone would teach them how to hit as a coach.

 

[Osric]

I've never encouraged or discouraged my girls when it comes to hitting the first pitch. What I tell them instead is that the "first strike" needs to be in your wheelhouse to swing at. If a girl can't hit a high pitch and it is called at the letters for a strike, I'd rather have them have a strike on them than to have popped up on THAT pitch. Once they have a strike on them, then they are green to hit any pitch in the strike zone (umpire dependent...don't swing at a ball at the knees if the ump never calls that.) Once they have two strikes on them, they need to hit anything they can reach..foul off the bad ones and hope the pitcher serves up an nice big watermelon you can drive.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Bustos and Carrier teach a hitting zone. That is anything within 5 inches of the strike zone. We teach our kids how to hit those pitches, example hit and run. We tell them we only want the umpire to call safe and out! We picked up a good drill from John Tschida He teaches the same thing. It is a device that is easy to make and works on the hitting zone. Howard and I have used it with students and the kids love it.

 

[RayR]

Excellent - we do something very similar and my job this year was to remind hitters to stick to their zone even if they got behind in the count...unless they had 2 strikes we were always looking to zone a pitch....amazing how much better we hit when sticking to this plan and how we wore out pitchers...

RD, I created an 8.5" x 11" MS Word Document whereby I copy/pasted 6 softball images to form a 2 ball by 3 ball grid. I then printed 9 of these sheets and glued them to a piece of cardboard. I then attached the cardboard to an old Tee I had using zip ties. This was the finished product.

I set this Tee up in front of a plate as shown to demonstrate to the hitters, the pitchers, and the catchers the defined strike zone. It has been a real eye-opener to all just how big the strike zone "can" be.

I ask the hitters to pick out an area on the grid of about 3 balls by 3 balls that is "their" pitch. This helps them visualize the "zone" where they are looking with 0 strikes, then widen it for 1 strike, then they have to protect the entire grid with 2 strikes.

 

[dbias]

I'm confused. In college baseball, a batter's average with an 0-0 count is .186. Yet in MLB, it's .332.

Why the huge discrepancy?

2012 National League splits


IMO, the first pitch is an excellent time to swing - so long as it's an excellent pitch to hit. You can't give away that opportunity and be a good hitter, but you also can't take the approach that ''if it's a strike, I'm hacking.'' Good hitters find the balance.

DD is a pitcher and very good hitter. She sizes up the other pitcher during warm ups and plans out her at bats... Ex dropballer move up in box and catch it before it breaks much. That being said she also knows personally a pitchers desire to "work ahead". If a pitcher is struggling of course work the count. If she serves up a meatball to get ahead in the count then take it.
Batting in three spot dd has a lot of first pitch HR with this approach.

 

[canyonjoe]

2 factors that I consider are. How good the kids are at making contact with a pitch and what kind of zone the umps are calling.

Being a great contact hitter can be a curse if you always put balls in play when you swing. If you are this type of hitter you need to
lay off the first pitch unless it's perfect. Otherwise you hit a pitchers pitch often and ground or pop out. Conversely if the hitter tends to miss a lot of pitches, I want them hacking at 3 strikes. No matter what you never want to swing at balls.

On the umpire side, we play in different areas. One ASA area, the umps call strikes like they do in rec. High low inside outside. With these guys against a good pitcher if you get down 0-1 they pitcher can throw 4-5 inches off the plate all day. If you get a real strike to hit with these ump and a good P, you better hack at it or you might not see another.

However, either way, you should never, never ,never swing at a ball at the extremes of the zone or out on the first pitch.