SB swing -VS- BB swing

[Greenmonsters]

I agree but really Greenmonsters...how do we know that? Is it simply an assumtion or has it happened? When I have seen clips most of the time the baseball batter...at least the one in the famous SPORTS SCIENCE clip dumps the barrel and swings under the pitch because the rise ball is on a different plane than his swing has ever hit. It is a rise ball and it is a pitch plane impossible to acheive throwing overhand (maybe submarine style).

Because I do it in the cages all the time - LOL. But really I think its just a matter of adjustment and I don't think any MLBer would want to jeopardize their livelihood swing to spend the time to get dialed in to avoid looking foolish v. Jenny during the stints she did for This Week in BB (or whatever that show was). Now that's not to say that the FP pitcher wouldn't still have an edge because the hitters reaction time @ 65 mph from 43 ft is about the same as 100 mph from 60.5 ft, but Aroldis Chapman of the Reds, who was clocked at 105 mph this year, and the other MLB flame throwers still get hit. And, yes, I agree that, whether SB or BB, the FB is the easiest pitch to hit; the other pitches just require more repetition (and above average eyesight, coordination, and athleticism) to ID and adjust.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

Nope. If you can rake baseballs, you can rake softballs and vice versa. The classic Jenny Finch domination of MLBers is simply due to the fact that these hitters aren't used to the release point, timing, and movement. You give even a mediocre major league hitter a couple of days or weeks practice v. FP exclusively and it would be a different story.

Same goes for submariners.

They generally just work as gimmicky, once in a while relievers who succeed because the look is so different.

 

[lhowser]

Because I do it in the cages all the time - LOL.

That's all the proof I needed!

I agree, I think the swings are the same too. There is probably an adjustment however because of the angle of the pitch that takes repetition...seeing it a lot.

For the original poster - There is a lot of bad teaching going on and myths perpetuated on the swing. If you know and can teach how to hit and drive a baseball stick with it. There is no magic formula for softball.

Now that's not to say that the FP pitcher wouldn't still have an edge because the hitters reaction time @ 65 mph from 43 ft is about the same as 100 mph from 60.5 ft

I hear this all the time and they always show this on the Softball and Little League World Series on TV. When people say this shouldn't they take into account that even though reaction time is similar rate of the closing time (Feet per second) should make the baseball more difficult to time...Yes?...No?...

 

[cshilt]

...that's not to say that the FP pitcher wouldn't still have an edge because the hitters reaction time @ 65 mph from 43 ft is about the same as 100 mph from 60.5 ft, but Aroldis Chapman of the Reds, who was clocked at 105 mph this year, and the other MLB flame throwers still get hit.

I did the math one time and put it into a spreadsheet. The formula is Distance / MPH / 1.466666 = Reaction Time.

Jennie was reported to have a top end at around 71 mph, which if thrown from the pitcher's plate (43 feet) would be 0.413 seconds. A baseball thrown at 100 mph (60.5 feet) would have the same amount of reaction time. The actual reaction times for both would actually be less, but I didn't subtract any distance to account for the stride.

 

[Wellphyt]

IMO the physics are the same whether you're hitting a baseball or a softball. The basic rules of how the body needs to work are also the same. Things like hitting from a balanced position, weight shift, tight hand path, hips before hands, and a good sequence, apply in both cases. An efficient swing is an efficient swing, is an efficient swing...

From Jen Yee:

"A swing is a swing is a swing, the bat travels in a roughly circular path, with the objective of hitting the ball. Enough said?

A more efficient swing is one that has the most room for error. Error being in misjudgment of timing or location, we are only human with far from perfect hand-eye coordination after all. Therefore, our goals as hitters are 1) to achieve the highest bat speed possible at the point of contact, giving the most power 2) to create a smooth bat path on the same plane in which the ball is traveling for as long as possible, giving a higher percentage of solid contact."

I think an agrument can be made that the FP swing should be a little flatter. A little less loop in the swing than some baseball swings. Ted Williams said that when he felt like he was getting under the ball too much and hitting too many lazy fly balls, he would "raise his sights" to get more on top. He would level out a little and take some of the loop out of his swing. He also talked about how "raising his sights" helped him to be quicker against really hard throwers. I have passed along some of these anecdotes to my daughter as I believe they are useful for softball.

 

[starsnuffer]

Swing is pretty much the same. The difference comes from the angles of the pitches they will be trying to hit. Teaching how to swing and teaching how to hit are two different things.

-W

 

[cshilt]

...From Jen Yee:

"A swing is a swing is a swing, the bat travels in a roughly circular path, with the objective of hitting the ball. Enough said?

A more efficient swing is one that has the most room for error. Error being in misjudgment of timing or location, we are only human with far from perfect hand-eye coordination after all. Therefore, our goals as hitters are 1) to achieve the highest bat speed possible at the point of contact, giving the most power 2) to create a smooth bat path on the same plane in which the ball is traveling for as long as possible, giving a higher percentage of solid contact."

Your quote of Jen Yee reminded me of a conversation with Dave Paetkau, Yee's instructor. He played fastpitch at the highest levels and tried out for a professional team and did rather well. He was one of the last cuts, but it had nothing to do with his swing. It was solely based on the fact he had never played a game of organized baseball.

 

[Randy O]

Swing is pretty much the same. The difference comes from the angles of the pitches they will be trying to hit. Teaching how to swing and teaching how to hit are two different things.

I'm not buying the whole pitch angle thing. If you take a 6'2" guy from 60'6" away (approx. 7' release point) and standing on a 10.5" mound and have him throw at a target basically waist high (3' off the ground) and draw a line from release point to impact point. Then take a 5'6" girl 43' away (approx. 30" release point) and throw at the same point and draw a line from release point to impact point. The difference between the 2 lines is ONLY somewhere around 5 degrees. Obviously both pitchers are going to make the ball move some so I can not account for that, but there is such a slight difference in angle that it won't make any difference.. IMO This whole thing about having to change your bat plane to match that of the ball is, I'm not going to say BS, but just that I'm not buying it... IMO It's about 1/2 of an inch or less upon contact of the ball.

Teaching someone how to walk and how to run are 2 different things too, but the first has to be taught before the second can be accomplished.

 

[lhowser]

I'm not buying the whole pitch angle thing. If you take a 6'2" guy from 60'6" away (approx. 7' release point) and standing on a 10.5" mound and have him throw at a target basically waist high (3' off the ground) and draw a line from release point to impact point. Then take a 5'6" girl 43' away (approx. 30" release point) and throw at the same point and draw a line from release point to impact point. The difference between the 2 lines is ONLY somewhere around 5 degrees.

Good input. I brought it up as a discussion point to think through. You may be right.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I'm not buying the whole pitch angle thing. If you take a 6'2" guy from 60'6" away (approx. 7' release point) and standing on a 10.5" mound and have him throw at a target basically waist high (3' off the ground) and draw a line from release point to impact point. Then take a 5'6" girl 43' away (approx. 30" release point) and throw at the same point and draw a line from release point to impact point. The difference between the 2 lines is ONLY somewhere around 5 degrees. Obviously both pitchers are going to make the ball move some so I can not account for that, but there is such a slight difference in angle that it won't make any difference.. IMO This whole thing about having to change your bat plane to match that of the ball is, I'm not going to say BS, but just that I'm not buying it... IMO It's about 1/2 of an inch or less upon contact of the ball.

Teaching someone how to walk and how to run are 2 different things too, but the first has to be taught before the second can be accomplished.

Yes indeed, but once you learn to run, that 1/2 inch is huge! Consistently weak pop ups/ground outs versus a meal ticket for life.