Questions about batting order

[radness]

That's a great point. I am still surprised some players don't like to bat in various places in the lineup.

Think that's because certain places in the lineup have ' labels of status'
(Let me add for clarity- labels that may not be accurate)
#1 fast
#4 big boomba hitter
#7, #8, #9

And that's only because they think that's what those spots are for in the lineup not really what lineup actually needs to be.

For instance 7 and 8 could easily be big boomba hitters. Still would want Runners on base for those occasions from the number 5 and 6 slots...
But who wants their kid in the bottom half of the lineup when the top of the lineup is the TOP

Reality is With games that have a time limit it doesn't always happen that the lineup comes back around to the beginning in the later inning.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Think that's because certain places in the lineup have ' labels of status'
#1 fast

My kid is the slowest leadoff hitter in New England. But she bats there because she doesn't strike out, gets on base, and the more prototypical leadoff girl performs better without the pressure of batting first.

 

[CoachJD]

That's a great point. I am still surprised some players don't like to bat in various places in the lineup.

I was kind of surprised until I realized I'm one of those people.

I find that some girls don't like the pressure of being the leadoff hitter, and that's really weird to me because I was almost always the leadoff hitter growing up and into adulthood on various teams at different levels. I don't ever want to hit anywhere else in the lineup, so naturally finding a truly good leadoff hitter who likes being in that spot eludes me (had a girl in middle school who was perfect for it, loved it, and naturally she went elsewhere for high school).

 

[radness]

My kid is the slowest leadoff hitter in New England. But she bats there because she doesn't strike out, gets on base, and the more prototypical leadoff girl performs better without the pressure of batting first.

Yes this is a great example of why someone should be a leadoff hitter
*they have a good on-base percentage.
*Not just because they are fast.

This is why said some people think fast is the reason someone should be a leadoff and that is not necessarily true.

 

[radness]

I was kind of surprised until I realized I'm one of those people.

I find that some girls don't like the pressure of being the leadoff hitter, and that's really weird to me because I was almost always the leadoff hitter growing up and into adulthood on various teams at different levels. I don't ever want to hit anywhere else in the lineup, so naturally finding a truly good leadoff hitter who likes being in that spot eludes me (had a girl in middle school who was perfect for it, loved it, and naturally she went elsewhere for high school).

This is another great example of analyzing who is good in what position in the lineup. Whether or not player likes or can handle that pressure. Some people like the spotlight of being first.
Some dont.

But that does not show up in hitting statistics it is analyzing the player's personality and dynamic on the field

 

[murphdog]

I was kind of surprised until I realized I'm one of those people.

I find that some girls don't like the pressure of being the leadoff hitter, and that's really weird to me because I was almost always the leadoff hitter growing up and into adulthood on various teams at different levels. I don't ever want to hit anywhere else in the lineup, so naturally finding a truly good leadoff hitter who likes being in that spot eludes me (had a girl in middle school who was perfect for it, loved it, and naturally she went elsewhere for high school).

DD used to hate batting leadoff but loved batting 2nd. She’s been leadoff on her college team every year and no longer hates it but would still prefer to be 2.
Her biggest gripe is when she has someone not aggressive in front of her and she can’t steal. When she bats 2 there’s always been an equally aggressive leadoff.

 

[radness]

My kid is the slowest leadoff hitter in New England. But she bats there because she doesn't strike out, gets on base, and the more prototypical leadoff girl performs better without the pressure of batting first.

I was kind of surprised until I realized I'm one of those people.

I find that some girls don't like the pressure of being the leadoff hitter, and that's really weird to me because I was almost always the leadoff hitter growing up and into adulthood on various teams at different levels. I don't ever want to hit anywhere else in the lineup, so naturally finding a truly good leadoff hitter who likes being in that spot eludes me (had a girl in middle school who was perfect for it, loved it, and naturally she went elsewhere for high school).

These Things like running speed and how a Player handles different pressures , like being lead off, are not things that show up in batting statistics immediatly.

Unless able to evaluate the player with a lot of reps in different spots in a lineup it would take quite a bit of reps to analyze exactly if that batting lineup was making a difference or not.

Probably the majority of coaches that do not have a lot of Analytics are guessing for reasons that may be irrelevant.

Like putting a hitter in the number four spot because they can hit a big Boombah once in awhile is not necessarily the most productive batter to have in the number four spot.

 

[Rolling Hard]

That's a great point. I am still surprised some players don't like to bat in various places in the lineup.

Are we talking lead off? Thats the only spot I could possibly consider a players feelings I making lineup. If a player isn't comfortable in a certain place in the lineup maybe they shouldn't be in the lineup.
"Coach, you have me batting 4th and you know I am not comfortable there. Could you switch me to the 5 hole." Really? Maybe you would be more comfortable riding the pine. But really, if the batting order is getting into your players head, they are thinking way too much.

 

[radness]

Are we talking lead off? Thats the only spot I could possibly consider a players feelings I making lineup. If a player isn't comfortable in a certain place in the lineup maybe they shouldn't be in the lineup.
"Coach, you have me batting 4th and you know I am not comfortable there. Could you switch me to the 5 hole." Really? Maybe you would be more comfortable riding the pine.

But really, if the batting order is getting into your players head, they are thinking way too much.

While that may be true it is still something may want to consider when making a lineup.

Saying that because softball is a developmental sport that starts in one place and grows to another. Immediately putting players in uncomfortable position generally does not bode the best results. Even though sometimes they should be put in place that might help teach them grow into a more flexible comfort zone.

That is why commented this is one of the reasons to certain places in the lineup have
'labels of status'.
I did not say those 'labels of status' are accurate ...
they can be false labels
but they do get in people's heads.
Usually it's from the parents who are talking in the car with their child on the way home from the game.

 

[tim_s]

while this seems like a more of a "why didn't my kid bat" vs a real batting order question, i always liked this piece from Candrea:

"Scoring runs is the reason we make line-ups." This is an obvious statement whether we put together our best defensive position line-up or a run producing line-up. A coach tries to structure that offensive part of the game to "produce" runs the best way possible. I like to stick to a formula that utilizes these six aspects;

1) On base percentage, 2) Bat control, 3) Strike zone knowledge 4) Speed, 5) Power, 6) Run production

There is no question that with Team USA I have the luxury of utilizing the best talent in the country to create the line-up. However, at every level I have coached I have heeded the same axiom for the last 25 years. "Get as many people on base as possible without making an out." If we do that then we ARE going to score runs. Whether we hit home runs or not, four people on base safely an inning without a double play is going to be a run. To enhance this I will give an explanation of each position in the line-up as I see it in fast pitch softball.

#1 - To me, the most important hitter in the line-up; Knowing that this person will be guaranteed to be up to bat at least the same number of times, but possibly more than everyone else, I want this spot to have a combination of all six of the aspects mentioned earlier. If we could be up 1 to 0 after the first at bat in a game, that takes the pressure off of everyone. The biggest thing to remember is that she may only "lead-off" an inning one time in a game, so she needs to bring more than just speed to the game.

#2 - Bat control, on-base percentage, strike zone knowledge, speed--- This hitter needs to be able to move runners via the bunt or the ground ball; she also needs to get on base with the big guns up behind her; more than anything else she needs to be a great two-strike hitter so we can do a multitude of things and if they don't work out, she may be hitting a lot with two strikes.

#3 - Basically my second most important hitter in the line-up because she has to be able to hit and play like the leadoff hitter.

#4 - Ditto the #3 hitter.

#5 - Strike zone knowledge, power, and run production-this #5 hitter is the "Clean-up" hitter in our line-up. Her aggressiveness with runners in scoring position is why she is in the #5 spot; in case the opposition pitches around #4, we have #5!

#6 - Our second #5 hitter.

#7 - On-base percentage, strike-zone knowledge, power, run production. Overall this person may not be the fastest person in the line-up, #7 is dangerous and can set the table up for the top of the line-up.

#8 - My second best #2 hitter.

#9 - My secondary lead-off hitter with not as much power.