Questions about batting order

[radness]

Great Post @tim_s !!!

Was going to comment something similar to that
~the fastest runner on the team may not be the best leadoff hitter.
But they may be the best pinch-runner.
Then could consider who is the smarter player baserunner, may have a better eye at the plate and if they get a better jump in Gametime situations the smarter player slightly slower might then be a better choice.
Because in game time they may produce the same running speed to the next base. And a smarter player will have better game sense.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

while this seems like a more of a "why didn't my kid bat" vs a real batting order question, i always liked this piece from Candrea:

"Scoring runs is the reason we make line-ups." This is an obvious statement whether we put together our best defensive position line-up or a run producing line-up. A coach tries to structure that offensive part of the game to "produce" runs the best way possible. I like to stick to a formula that utilizes these six aspects;

1) On base percentage, 2) Bat control, 3) Strike zone knowledge 4) Speed, 5) Power, 6) Run production

There is no question that with Team USA I have the luxury of utilizing the best talent in the country to create the line-up. However, at every level I have coached I have heeded the same axiom for the last 25 years. "Get as many people on base as possible without making an out." If we do that then we ARE going to score runs. Whether we hit home runs or not, four people on base safely an inning without a double play is going to be a run. To enhance this I will give an explanation of each position in the line-up as I see it in fast pitch softball.

#1 - To me, the most important hitter in the line-up; Knowing that this person will be guaranteed to be up to bat at least the same number of times, but possibly more than everyone else, I want this spot to have a combination of all six of the aspects mentioned earlier. If we could be up 1 to 0 after the first at bat in a game, that takes the pressure off of everyone. The biggest thing to remember is that she may only "lead-off" an inning one time in a game, so she needs to bring more than just speed to the game.

#2 - Bat control, on-base percentage, strike zone knowledge, speed--- This hitter needs to be able to move runners via the bunt or the ground ball; she also needs to get on base with the big guns up behind her; more than anything else she needs to be a great two-strike hitter so we can do a multitude of things and if they don't work out, she may be hitting a lot with two strikes.

#3 - Basically my second most important hitter in the line-up because she has to be able to hit and play like the leadoff hitter.

#4 - Ditto the #3 hitter.

#5 - Strike zone knowledge, power, and run production-this #5 hitter is the "Clean-up" hitter in our line-up. Her aggressiveness with runners in scoring position is why she is in the #5 spot; in case the opposition pitches around #4, we have #5!

#6 - Our second #5 hitter.

#7 - On-base percentage, strike-zone knowledge, power, run production. Overall this person may not be the fastest person in the line-up, #7 is dangerous and can set the table up for the top of the line-up.

#8 - My second best #2 hitter.

#9 - My secondary lead-off hitter with not as much power.

What a bunch of coach speak gibberish. Candrea is so overrated...

 

[radness]

What a bunch of coach speak gibberish. Candrea is so overrated...

Acknowledging your take on things...

Can you prove not using any thinking to interpret a line up works better? Or atleast equal?

While I am not a follow only the statistics person. There is some proof within statistics...

So asking your take on
Just pull names out of a hat type of lineup

 

[Rolling Hard]

"Usually, it's from the parents who are talking in the car with their child on the way home from the game."
Unfortunately and probably true.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Acknowledging your take on things...

Can you prove not using any thinking to interpret a line up works better? Or atleast equal?

While I am not a follow only the statistics person. There is some proof within statistics...

So asking your take on
Just pull names out of a hat type of lineup

The Book

 

[radness]

The Book

No answer in your own words...ok got it.

 

[tim_s]

the book waas developed for baseball lineups, although some of the tenets hold true

candrea's take really isn't a whole hell of a lot different to the book.....it's tailored to softball and has more detail

 

[radness]

Details...what makes a discussion a discussion...about details...

 

[_MIA_]

Details...what makes a discussion a discussion...about details...

The baseball analytics people have used run expectancies for each position in the batting order to devise an "optimal" lineup in terms of scoring runs. What they found was that over the course of a season an optimal lineup would generate between 5 and 15 more runs over a typical lineup (speed at 1, etc, etc, ) which works out to like 1 or 2 extra wins per 162 games..hence @GunnerShotgun statement that it doesn't matter that much. The only way this wouldn't work for softball would be if those run expectancy numbers were wildly different in softball..which I don't think they are.

 

[tim_s]

The baseball analytics people have used run expectancies for each position in the batting order to devise an "optimal" lineup in terms of scoring runs. What they found was that over the course of a season an optimal lineup would generate between 5 and 15 more runs over a typical lineup (speed at 1, etc, etc, ) which works out to like 1 or 2 extra wins per 162 games..hence @GunnerShotgun statement that it doesn't matter that much. The only way this wouldn't work for softball would be if those run expectancy numbers were wildly different in softball..which I don't think they are.

the games themselves are pretty different, though.......speed is such a huge factor, small ball is more in play (although power is taking over) you have pitchers who can dominate and pitch far more often than in baseball......i think these factors, amongst others, make lineup optimization a far more important aspect than in baseball

how much more is open to debate, but i think it is a bigger factor