Finished viewing Hillhouse's pitching DVD, which I would recommend especially for beginning pitchers, but had a question about stance. Before starting the pitching motion, he suggests that only the pivot foot HEEL be placed on the front of the pitching plate, the rest of the foot is in the dirt in front of the plate? The result is that when the pitcher pushes off, she is driving off of the dirt with the ball of her foot instead of driving off the plate. Would she not LOSE power because she is not drving off the plate ("starting block") with all of her force?
Pivot Foot Heel on Front of Pitching Plate?
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I am not familiar with the Hillouse DVD. IMO if the pitcher is a step style pitcher, it would not be as crucial as it would be to a leap and drag style. I believe the leap and drag pitchers need something solid to push off.
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- May 13, 2008
- 824
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There will be a hole there soon enough. Here is a picture of Jennie...
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Just to clarify, this is taught for the "leap & drag" pitcher. Everything else about the stance and pitch is the same, only that the pivot foot heel is touching the plate instead of the front part of the foot. I agree with you that it seems to be counter intuitive for a good push off. I think he teaches this to get a good rocking motion prior to the wind-up?
There will be a hole there soon enough. Here is a picture of Jennie...
Nice photo. So are you recommending this technique? To me, a hole in the dirt will not give you as much solid ground for push off vs. a pitching plate which is rock solid. Also, since most of the other pitchers will be creating a hole immediately in front of the plate (caused by their toe) and not six inches in front of the plate, is there a concern that a "heel plate pitcher" will have her whole foot in a hole? I know the picture above doesn't show it, but most fields are not as well manicured as the national team fields. Last comment, I assume that Jennie was playing by international rules since her stride foot is not on the plate (as per ASA) which would be an illegal pitch?
Keep in mind College and ASA are different. ASA it reads in contact with. College it reads Top of surface. So Heel must be on top of the plate in college, but in ASA the heal just has to touch the pitcher plate.
- May 13, 2008
- 824
- 16
Yes. Bill would recommend hiding the ball more on the side as opposed to Jennie's "rocker motion" arm, but the "sprinter's start" is what we're looking for here. Nose over knee, knee over toes.
When the hole is there it will be sloped and highly resemble a starting block. Don't overthink it, your DD will instinctively push off whatever gives her the most leverage.
Right, depends on the association. Some allow this, some don't. I'd suggest learning both. My DD resisted the step back, but once she tried it she prefers it. She can switch back and forth as needed depending on the association.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,642
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If you look at Jennie's feet in this picture, her pivot foot heel is up OFF the rubber and she is pushing off from the dirt, that is, from somewhere other than the pitcher's plate; an illegal act.
If you look at her stride foot, it is starting off with the toes BEHIND the pitcher's plate, another illegaL act.
Just because the umpires do not enforce that rule at the collegiate and international levels, does not mean it is legal. Start off your pitch like that in my area with ASA or NSA, IP instantly.
Here is one of the chapters of my book. There is another chapter entitled 'Dont cheat" but enough said there.
Hal
USING THE PITCHER'S RUBBER
When a pitcher starts their forward momentum and pushes off, they will either do it from the pitcher's rubber or from the dirt just in front of the rubber. Have you ever given much thought as to why the pitcher's rubber is there?
The pitcher's rubber is there, basically, for two reasons;
1. So officials have a raised, visible point of reference to ensure conformance among pitchers in regards to the pitching distance and other pitching regulations.
2. It is also there to provide a raised, level, flat, solid and permanent surface for the pitcher to push off from.
Have you ever watched a track and field event? Have you ever noticed the starting blocks the runners push off from when they first take off? They provide a raised, solid and stationary surface to push off from. If they tried to take off from the dirt without these blocks, they would slip and fall on their face, even with metal cleats. A dirt surface does not provide good traction for forward force/momentum.
The pitcher's rubber is basically a starting block for a pitcher. There is a reason the rulebooks refer to one foot as 'The pivot foot' and the other as the 'Non-pivot foot'.
The ball of your foot is the pivot point for your foot when doing any type of pushing motion. It is the point on your foot where you can utilize the maximum pushing effort because it is the strongest point of your foot to push from.
The front top edge of the rubber is the pivot point of the pitcher's rubber. To achieve the maximum potential of pushing force, these two pivot points must be in direct contact with each other. That front edge of the rubber stays firm and stationary. It allows you to continue to pivot on your foot and push well into your forward progress, unlike dirt.
If you start your forward momentum with the ball of your pivot foot ahead of the front edge of the rubber, you are placing the pivot point for your foot on the dirt and not on the pivot point of the pitcher's rubber.
You might look at it as gaining 5 inches or so but think about what you lose by doing this.
By pushing off from the dirt you give up that flat, level and solid surface. You cannot utilize that solid surface to push off of. Now your push off is holding you back. You cannot push off from the dirt with your full available force. The pivot point for your foot now starts at the ball of the foot (where you can utilize your full energy/force) but quickly changes to the toes (the weakest part of the foot) before you get very far into your forward push. You take away some potential for stride length by doing this.
The rubber is raised. This also allows for the toes to drop down a bit, right in front of the rubber. In doing that, you can be farther into your forward momentum and still use the ball of the foot to continue pushing off from the rubber. Your rubber cleats do not have great traction, not enough to use the same amount of force as compared to pushing off from the rubber. If you tried, your foot would slip, kick backwards, you would lose control and you would stumble.
The surface of the dirt is not a raised, flat and level surface. It is seldom flat unless a lot of loose dirt has been swept into the area. Loose dirt gives you even less traction than solid dirt and less force can be used when pushing off from it. Normally the terrain right in front of the rubber is quite chewed up and uneven.
Often there is a rough, deep and uneven hole where the dirt has been chewed up and kicked out. Now, you are stepping down a few inches, which throws off your balance, aim and has a negative effect on your control. You are trying to push off from a rough uneven surface and that does not let you achieve maximum forward momentum/force.
The ball of your foot cannot assist in the forward momentum as much because there is no solid surface directly behind it to push from. You will be expending energy to propel your body upwards, out of that hole, instead of using all that energy to propel you forward towards the batter. That is a waste of energy in the pitching motion. Let's face it, the closer you can get to the batter when you release that ball, the less time the batter has to react.
If you slide your foot 4-5" forward of the rubber, past the pivot point of the rubber, you will lose 8-10" inches of stride length potential. You will also have a little more control problem by doing it too. You lose more than you gain.
Push off from the pitcher's rubber. It not only keeps you legal, it's the smart thing to do.
If you look at her stride foot, it is starting off with the toes BEHIND the pitcher's plate, another illegaL act.
Just because the umpires do not enforce that rule at the collegiate and international levels, does not mean it is legal. Start off your pitch like that in my area with ASA or NSA, IP instantly.
Here is one of the chapters of my book. There is another chapter entitled 'Dont cheat" but enough said there.
Hal
USING THE PITCHER'S RUBBER
When a pitcher starts their forward momentum and pushes off, they will either do it from the pitcher's rubber or from the dirt just in front of the rubber. Have you ever given much thought as to why the pitcher's rubber is there?
The pitcher's rubber is there, basically, for two reasons;
1. So officials have a raised, visible point of reference to ensure conformance among pitchers in regards to the pitching distance and other pitching regulations.
2. It is also there to provide a raised, level, flat, solid and permanent surface for the pitcher to push off from.
Have you ever watched a track and field event? Have you ever noticed the starting blocks the runners push off from when they first take off? They provide a raised, solid and stationary surface to push off from. If they tried to take off from the dirt without these blocks, they would slip and fall on their face, even with metal cleats. A dirt surface does not provide good traction for forward force/momentum.
The pitcher's rubber is basically a starting block for a pitcher. There is a reason the rulebooks refer to one foot as 'The pivot foot' and the other as the 'Non-pivot foot'.
The ball of your foot is the pivot point for your foot when doing any type of pushing motion. It is the point on your foot where you can utilize the maximum pushing effort because it is the strongest point of your foot to push from.
The front top edge of the rubber is the pivot point of the pitcher's rubber. To achieve the maximum potential of pushing force, these two pivot points must be in direct contact with each other. That front edge of the rubber stays firm and stationary. It allows you to continue to pivot on your foot and push well into your forward progress, unlike dirt.
If you start your forward momentum with the ball of your pivot foot ahead of the front edge of the rubber, you are placing the pivot point for your foot on the dirt and not on the pivot point of the pitcher's rubber.
You might look at it as gaining 5 inches or so but think about what you lose by doing this.
By pushing off from the dirt you give up that flat, level and solid surface. You cannot utilize that solid surface to push off of. Now your push off is holding you back. You cannot push off from the dirt with your full available force. The pivot point for your foot now starts at the ball of the foot (where you can utilize your full energy/force) but quickly changes to the toes (the weakest part of the foot) before you get very far into your forward push. You take away some potential for stride length by doing this.
The rubber is raised. This also allows for the toes to drop down a bit, right in front of the rubber. In doing that, you can be farther into your forward momentum and still use the ball of the foot to continue pushing off from the rubber. Your rubber cleats do not have great traction, not enough to use the same amount of force as compared to pushing off from the rubber. If you tried, your foot would slip, kick backwards, you would lose control and you would stumble.
The surface of the dirt is not a raised, flat and level surface. It is seldom flat unless a lot of loose dirt has been swept into the area. Loose dirt gives you even less traction than solid dirt and less force can be used when pushing off from it. Normally the terrain right in front of the rubber is quite chewed up and uneven.
Often there is a rough, deep and uneven hole where the dirt has been chewed up and kicked out. Now, you are stepping down a few inches, which throws off your balance, aim and has a negative effect on your control. You are trying to push off from a rough uneven surface and that does not let you achieve maximum forward momentum/force.
The ball of your foot cannot assist in the forward momentum as much because there is no solid surface directly behind it to push from. You will be expending energy to propel your body upwards, out of that hole, instead of using all that energy to propel you forward towards the batter. That is a waste of energy in the pitching motion. Let's face it, the closer you can get to the batter when you release that ball, the less time the batter has to react.
If you slide your foot 4-5" forward of the rubber, past the pivot point of the rubber, you will lose 8-10" inches of stride length potential. You will also have a little more control problem by doing it too. You lose more than you gain.
Push off from the pitcher's rubber. It not only keeps you legal, it's the smart thing to do.
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Ok. To summarize (for ASA), her pivot foot heel should touch front of plate and her stride foot toe touches the back of the plate for maximum separation of right and left feet. I think this stance would also help with push off of the STRIDE foot since it is not directly on top of the plate but toe is in contact with the back of the plate so the ball of the foot is pushing off the dirt and not directly on top of the plate (i.e. a better grip than on hard plastic) which my DD is currently doing with stride foot?
