Jenna Lilley

[ian]

B

In the "walking away from the hands" portion of this swing, his hands are very active in that they move up and back in a triangular hypotenuse manner and even start the "running head start" segment of his swing. Mann provided us with a "clip of the year" nominee. Beautiful clip, well done.
The beauty of Mann's clip is shown in the area where the green dots form the overlapped section. That's the running head start. And, as explained in Tweks ebook, well you just have to read it for yourselves.
That's my understanding. My DD doesn't have that yet. She also doesn't "walk away" from her hands. She's stuck in between.

Draw a line at the front position of his hands as he reaches the high point of his leg lift. The pause the clip at his front foot touch. Where are the hands.
Back and up. Right? They also start to supinate (flatten) a bit as the back elbow starts to work towards the rear hip (slot)

IMO

Back and up Right. You are correct. How do you describe the move where the hands move up and back and the front foot moves forward? I call it walking away. Do you call it 'running start'?

I see the front shoulder turning In and down and I see what looks like some scap pinch. Do the hands pull the front shoulder in? Do the hands pinch the scap?

 

[do-over]

B

Back and up Right. You are correct. How do you describe the move where the hands move up and back and the front foot moves forward? I call it walking away. Do you call it 'running start'?

I see the front shoulder turning In and down and I see what looks like some scap pinch. Do the hands pull the front shoulder in? Do the hands pinch the scap?

I can see that once again I haven't made myself clear. I'm sorry.
I wrongly assumed that walking away from the hands is a passive move with the hands. To my credit however is years back, FFS stated to a father that you should, and I'm paraphrasing, simply tell her to put her hands on a shelf and walk away. (figuratively)
That's what that means to me. That's what I don't agree with.
This analogy I hope will clear things up. When throwing, I don't lift my arm up and walk away from my arm. I push away from my arm while the back arm separates in an upward and backward motion. Same in hitting. That's why Mann's clip is great. It shows exactly that.

According to Tweks, what is so clearly shown in Mann's clip is the running head start.
During this phase, the bat barrel works away from the pitch. However briefly it may be.
I think most here refer to it as "fling the barrel reward". To me, that has always been misleading. Mann's clip clearly shows the barrel direction. The key is the green dot area
that looks like the Jesus fish you see on the back of cars. Note what the hands are doing at that time. And the back elbow too.

What else is fascinating,one pitch is lower than the other, is the point when the green dot pattern changes. The fish looks pretty much the same. The arc seems to change somewhere around the point where the back elbow initially was at the beginning of the clip but the arc seems steeper. Is the dot count the same in both clips? I can't frame by frame here at work any more, but I can't wait to get home late tonight.
Sorry to ramble.
Thanks again Mann.
It could be the biggest ah-ha moment I ever had, hitting wise.

 

[ian]

I can see that once again I haven't made myself clear. I'm sorry.
I wrongly assumed that walking away from the hands is a passive move with the hands. To my credit however is years back, FFS stated to a father that you should, and I'm paraphrasing, simply tell her to put her hands on a shelf and walk away. (figuratively)
That's what that means to me. That's what I don't agree with.
This analogy I hope will clear things up. When throwing, I don't lift my arm up and walk away from my arm. I push away from my arm while the back arm separates in an upward and backward motion. Same in hitting. That's why Mann's clip is great. It shows exactly that.

According to Tweks, what is so clearly shown in Mann's clip is the running head start.
During this phase, the bat barrel works away from the pitch. However briefly it may be.
I think most here refer to it as "fling the barrel reward". To me, that has always been misleading. Mann's clip clearly shows the barrel direction. The key is the green dot area
that looks like the Jesus fish you see on the back of cars. Note what the hands are doing at that time. And the back elbow too.

What else is fascinating,one pitch is lower than the other, is the point when the green dot pattern changes. The fish looks pretty much the same. The arc seems to change somewhere around the point where the back elbow initially was at the beginning of the clip but the arc seems steeper. Is the dot count the same in both clips? I can't frame by frame here at work any more, but I can't wait to get home late tonight.
Sorry to ramble.
Thanks again Mann.
It could be the biggest ah-ha moment I ever had, hitting wise.

I love the tip and rip. When I play around with it I can feel the top hand torque and increased bat speed. Barry is the king of tip and rip IMO. Im not questioning the green fish, the tiping of the bat forward, the lead shoulder turning in and down while the back shoulder and hands go up and back, Im just asking what the correct terminology is. Im the one who isnt being clear.

I dont want to call 'it' walking away from the hands. What should I call 'it'?

 

[mann]

As he moves forward he 'prepares to throw'.

i was wondering if the throw you visualize, has the "lag" or "directional" component that loads the wrist, also called kinda "knob to ball" OR is it the guided Whip concept?.

Or is "directional" then throw? As far as i can tell, in a throw, its all whip.

 

[TDS]

The barrel is reactively working (loading) behind you (not clamped). Pitch location dictates the direction of the whip.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

i was wondering if the throw you visualize, has the "lag" or "directional" component that loads the wrist, also called kinda "knob to ball" OR is it the guided Whip concept?.

Or is "directional" then throw? As far as i can tell, in a throw, its all whip.

The "preparation to throw" that I was describing is what takes place during the "walking away from the hands".

The actual 'throw' loads the hands, especially the top hand. The top hand wrist becoming 'bent' (a bent top hand) is 'lag'.

During the 'short-to' ... i.e., the 'around' ... i.e., the swing up to the point of the 'short-to position' (RVP Connection Point Position), is inclusive of 'direction'. In a sense the knob is being turned ... turned to an imaginary line along the outside edge of the plate for a throw of the barrel at an outside pitch (a throw made with direction ... 'along' ... 'long through') ... turned to an imaginary line along the inside edge of the plate for a throw of the barrel at an inside pitch (a throw made with direction ... 'along' ... 'long through').

 

[mann]

The "preparation to throw" that I was describing is what takes place during the "walking away from the hands".

The actual 'throw' loads the hands, especially the top hand. The top hand wrist becoming 'bent' (a bent top hand) is 'lag'.

During the 'short-to' ... i.e., the 'around' ... i.e., the swing up to the point of the 'short-to position' (RVP Connection Point Position), is inclusive of 'direction'. In a sense the knob is being turned ... turned to an imaginary line along the outside edge of the plate for a throw of the barrel at an outside pitch (a throw made with direction ... 'along' ... 'long through') ... turned to an imaginary line along the inside edge of the plate for a throw of the barrel at an inside pitch (a throw made with direction ... 'along' ... 'long through').

Maybe i did not make myself clear, can you show me a gif of a THROW, and show me the things you just described in the swing?

The reason i ask, is an actual throw leads more towards swingbuilders swing instruction.


And i Love your description of the swing

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Mann, the throw/swing has both a 'lag' and 'directional' component to it.

In terms of 'lag', that's the loading of the top-hand/wrist as you swing/throw. This is a tension controlled loading ... tension in the top hand wrist lowers as the swing progresses ... hence the loading ... the bent top hand wrist ... it's covered in that physics book that I've mentioned to you from time-to-time.

In terms of 'direction' ... that needs to be pretty well established coming out of the 'around' and into the 'along' ... (i.e., as you complete the 'short-to').

Don't have the time to make a GIF at the moment.

 

[Ken B]

Bump. Hoping things pick up for her...

 

[Eric F]

Bump. Hoping things pick up for her...

Me, too. This season is not starting out the way I would have expected for her.