In the beginning...9 and 10 y/o's

[lhowser]

Here is video of 9 and 10 year olds I am working with for our summer team. We travel with all girls from the same city so I don't get to cherry pick from those who have already developed skills. Instead we have to home grow em. Obviously they are all at different stages of development and all but one as you can tell are really trying to focus on "throwing underhand" using internal rotation. As for the rest of the mechanics well...I guess that's why we tape em! My 9 year old is pitcher number 2 with the pink sweats with the stripe down the side...what's with that back foot drag and in her side view she betrays my internal rotation speeches by finishing in that muscleman position!? Thought you might enjoy watching our work in progress.

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[SoCalSoftballdad]

lhowser - great stuff, and I like your terminology "throwing underhand" to describe the elbow leading the hand to and through release. My DD is 7 and has been pitching for about six months but tends to throw with more straight arm, and after release up to an L position (what you called "muscleman" position) instead of internal rotation and letting the arm and hand finish "naturally". Any advice on what to change first to get more of an internal rotation throwing motion? I would like to introduce new mechanics slowly since our season starts in a few weeks. Thanks.

 

[Dave D]

I am really impressed with the overall quality of the group, especially the first two. I assume they both started with IR mechanics from day 1. Nice arm circles and extension on both. I wish I could back up time and start my 13 yo DD that way now. When we first started, it was with an old school snap and point the elbow guy, but I didn't really know better. It's kind of scary to see what some of these girls are doing with an early foundation of skills based on sound practice (what good pitchers actually do, as opposed to what we used to THINK they did).

I can't tell all of you on this forum how much it's helped to be able to be part of the ongoing discussion here, especially clip analysis and other info. (IR thread, anyone?) that has made me a much more effective observer and instructor for the girls I work with. DDs pitching has improved dramatically in the last year, as have the other 3 neophyte pitchers who play on our team. I attribute their success to two things--practice and the insight and information I've gotten from this forum. Sluggers, Hal, Bill, Amy and all the rest of you--thanks!

 

[lhowser]

Any advice on what to change first to get more of an internal rotation throwing motion? I would like to introduce new mechanics slowly since our season starts in a few weeks. Thanks.

The link below with the post from BoardMember was key for me.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/1348-internal-rotation.html

I would say the key to getting my DD and a few of the others in the video working with IR was simply to not compromise and settle for anything else. It wasn't natural for them because it seems like most people want to throw underhand like they toss underhand in slow pitch except faster.

Though not an absolute I would consider having her hand finish 180 degrees opposite of where it is at the open phase before release. Almost moving to a handshake position either naturally towards the target or towards the glove side shoulder. It will help eliminate the push release.

I have come up with lots of verbal cues the girls understand to help them throw underhand with internal rotation vs. pushing. Things like:
"Elbow First, then whip the forarm to release",

I have them work on it in slow motion and we asist from the side in helping them feel their arm in the right position.

They absolutely must be able to do BoardMembers first drill starting from the release and externally rotating the forearm and then internally rotating it back. This is a critcal reference point for the pitchers and parents.

My DD threw lots of balls of socks against a full length mirror.

I am a big believer the all real pitchers throw this way (IR) and so we talk about it and we make sure they are tring to do it. A friend of mines 12U DD was all over the place and slow. She has been taking lessons from a former college pitcher. I quickly identified that she was pushing trying to "snap" at the perfect release point. I introduced IR. She picked it up right away and is 2 - 5 mph faster and much, much more accurate in about two weeks time.

 

[sjsss]

"Any advice on what to change first to get more of an internal rotation throwing motion?"


Have her stand in the “show it throw it” side drill position with arm at 12 o’clock without the ball. Facing her, tell her to relax her arm….take her by her throwing arm wrist and just give her arm a good push down. Her arm will internally rotate perfectly through the throwing motion if her arm is truly relaxed. This allows her to not only see but feel what it is that you are trying to get across. This has worked well for me, especially with the young ones.

 

[BoardMember]

Here is video of 9 and 10 year olds I am working with for our summer team. We travel with all girls from the same city so I don't get to cherry pick from those who have already developed skills. Instead we have to home grow em. Obviously they are all at different stages of development and all but one as you can tell are really trying to focus on "throwing underhand" using internal rotation. As for the rest of the mechanics well...I guess that's why we tape em! My 9 year old is pitcher number 2 with the pink sweats with the stripe down the side...what's with that back foot drag and in her side view she betrays my internal rotation speeches by finishing in that muscleman position!? Thought you might enjoy watching our work in progress.

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Great stuff lhowser. A few comments. The release of your DD wrist/forearm from the front view is perfect. The side clip shows a bit of a push/pull with a palm up finish because she gets it turning in a little early.

Notice toward the end, the lefty is cleary "pushing" the ball down and "pulling" it up vs.using internal rotatation.......She needs a lot of work.......Her COM is clearly too far forward over the front foot.

The 3rd young lady who launches the ball up and in does a really good job of "throwing it", but doesn't finish palm down toward the target so the ball heads up and in........Getting her to finish JUST LIKE YOUR DD in the front view will take her a long way toward success.......

Who is the guy in the background. Is he you? Is he helping you? He clearly either doesn't understand I/R from the move he's making......OR......he's showing someone what NOT to do........I hope it's the later.......

Great work with the young ones! Your DD is on her way to a lot of fun on the mound........

 

[lhowser]

Who is the guy in the background. Is he you? Is he helping you? He clearly either doesn't understand I/R from the move he's making......OR......he's showing someone what NOT to do........I hope it's the later.......

He is a dad who's daughter is there. I noticed that too and thought it was funny that he was in the background demonstrating to his daughter the wrong pattern (she is the first pitcher in the red) when she clearly was doing well in the first two clips.

Great stuff lhowser. A few comments. The release of your DD wrist/forearm from the front view is perfect. The side clip shows a bit of a push/pull with a palm up finish because she gets it turning in a little early.

Thanks. I am trying to get her to relax her wrist a little and let it go last in the whip chain. She tends to cup the ball a bit around the circle and it may be part of the cause of that early turn and bit of a push in the side clip of her. (as a reference for others my daughter is the one in pink sweats...well they all almost have pink sweats but hers has a stripe. She is the second pitcher). Does that make sense regarding her wrist?

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

When you are catching young IR pitchers, what type of spin are you seeing (12/6 spin?). I have read in this forum that when IR is first introduced, you might see spin that creates down and in spin (relative to RHB). Also, is IR mechanics only important for fastball and peel drop type pitches. For example, a back hand change-up would not be using IR mechanics since you do NOT want a whipping motion that creates speed?

 

[lhowser]

I have been seeing two types of spin. I'll call it 1/7 spin where if the ball were to move as a result on the spin it would be down and in. The other is the opposite of that when the pitcher works their hand to the outside of the ball in an attempt to internally rotate. It would cut down and out. what would that be...11/5. If I can get enough light up where I pitch I can set the Casio camera to 420 fps and take a real look.

For example, a back hand change-up would not be using IR mechanics since you do NOT want a whipping motion that creates speed?

I have one throwing a horseshoe type release with a stiff wrist. She can rotate her arm early and kind of pull/push it through...at least that is the way I am teaching her.

My DD and the others are flipping and they turn it early. In fact the last pitch by a kid in the posted video (just before the college pitcher) is a change attempt with back of hand and fingers facing catcher.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

My DD and the others are flipping and they turn it early. In fact the last pitch by a kid in the posted video (just before the college pitcher) is a change attempt with back of hand and fingers facing catcher.

In your opinion, what is the change-up pitcher doing that would be considered internal rotation vs. a pitcher taught the traditional method of being on top of the ball from 12 - 9 o'clock. I'm just trying to understand how a "natural" underhand throw with the elbow leading the ball hand before release will help a pitcher throw any kind of change-up.

I recently mentioned IR to my DD's pitching coach and she was concerned that IR might put more strain on the shoulder than traditional methods, especially for new pitchers. Thoughts?