Welcome to Bulletspin Season!

[JayW]

This pitch to me does not look like a step left, throw right straight line pitch. It appears to me to have a late movement to the right.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

It would appear this topic has been covered already by our former engineering expert.

Laminar Express

This is a nickname that baseball uses for breaking pitches that don't depend on the Magnus Effect for their breaking force. The idea seems to be that on 2 seam pitches there is an imbalance in the wake behind the ball that can cause a pitch to break. The air flow that surrounds a ball can be of...

www.discussfastpitch.com

 

[DNeeld]

This pitch to me does not look like a step left, throw right straight line pitch. It appears to me to have a late movement to the right.

No, it does not look like a step left/throw right pitch.

It looks like an inside fastball with some funky wrist action that accomplishes nothing other than adding some funky wrist action.

 

[JayW]

No, it does not look like a step left/throw right pitch.

It looks like an inside fastball with some funky wrist action that accomplishes nothing other than adding some funky wrist action.

Sure. Except it moves right.

 

[tomorrow]

Do college coaches measure the movement of pitches due to the Magnus effect? How can they compare talent if RPM's don't matter? Does the bulletspin riseball even have a name? It seems like it should have its own name.

 

[DNeeld]

The only thing that moves on any of those "screwballs" is the catcher's glove.

Pop the video into any breakdown software and trace the ball path.

 

[CoachJD]

Sure. Except it moves right.

I can throw a ball, underhand or overhand, to the right, left or any direction at all if I angle it in that direction.

It's not breaking right.

That also doesn't mean it isn't an effective pitch. A rise ball is an effective pitch even if it's not actually rising.

 

[Hillhouse]

Because laminar flow is more powerful than the magnus effect. Laminar will move a ball without spin. Spin a ball with the opposite laminar force and it isn’t moving the direction you want it to move based on spin. I’ve seen a curve ball demonstrated with proper curve spin and an opposing laminar and it goes more in.

That’s also how a screwball is thrown. Not with spin, but using laminar and seam orientation.

Just like HD cameras showed that high-end pitchers weren’t using HE, newer technology is also now showing that most pitchers aren’t spinning balls to make them move (outside of drops), it’s slight changes in release angle and laminar flow.

And yes, much more study had been done in cricket than softball.

Interesting. A lot of that went straight over my head but, the parts that I did understand were interesting!! lol.

It sounds like, especially if you're going to use a screwball as an example, you're talking someone forcing the movement. I do not disagree, there's a lot of that. Moreover it gets perpetuated on ESPN when the announcers call every single pitch based on where it is caught. I've seen pitchers who were clearly trying to throw a drop but released it too late so it stayed belt high and didn't really move. Of course the announcers, including 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist Michele Smith, began talking about the pitcher's riseball. Ugh. Of course anything caught inside is a screwball, outside is a curve and if it hits the dirt it's obviously a drop. The announcers can never just say it was a bad pitch. Anyway, I think the overall point is true, there's a lot of pitchers with bad spin on their pitches. But they can still be effective by locating the pitch where they want it, even if it doesn't have a sharp break. I would even go so far as to say every pitcher has done this at some point. I can think of several games where I didn't "have it" and couldn't get the ball to do what I wanted. The only thing a pitcher can do when this happens is change speeds and try to hit the spots, even without the break. But given the 2 options, I'd much rather have my spin on pitches instead of just throwing it somewhere.

Personally, I don't consider throwing a pitch to a certain location to be legit without spin. Correct spin. By this logic, that the ball doesn't need correct spin to be called a particular pitch, then I guess slo-pitch pitchers are throwing rises and drops with each pitch. Throwing it high up for the rise part, then the sharp break down with the assist from Mr. Gravity. To me, that is the same thing as taking wildly different step during a particular pitch, angling the ball inside to a RHB, then pretending the ball had movement and calling it a screwball.

 

[JayW]

I can throw a ball, underhand or overhand, to the right, left or any direction at all if I angle it in that direction.

It's not breaking right.

That also doesn't mean it isn't an effective pitch. A rise ball is an effective pitch even if it's not actually rising.

If it was simply angled, it would move in a straight line from Point A (release) to Point B (catcher's mitt). In the last pitch sequence, you can clearly see the ball move right as it approaches the plate and the catcher abruptly moves her glove outside. It's pretty easy to see.

 

[ArmWhip]

If it was simply angled, it would move in a straight line from Point A (release) to Point B (catcher's mitt). In the last pitch sequence, you can clearly see the ball move right as it approaches the plate and the catcher abruptly moves her glove outside. It's pretty easy to see.

It's just camera angle. If you look at any recruiting videos you can see the same effect. At the 25 second mark you get a view from behind the catcher and the ball path is dead straight. To accurately see if there's break you need to be more in line with the path of the ball, either behind the plate or the pitching rubber.