DD getting ready for the new year

[HYP]

Those are some great shots red hot.

HYP i drew it out on paper, and i see the path you talk about .
However, when i look at the front veiw of your clips, the back hip, goes in a straight line, in the coil foward.
the front hip closes a bit, more so in some mleaguers than others, then the front hip begins to open, with a severe pinch on the front side, just like it had on the backside, it hits this strong resistance and the front hip deflects back. The back side is releasing, by then, because i can see the rear foot, being dragged foward. ( i get lost on how the back hip can keep resistance with nothing to push against, so it must be from just clenching the muscles in the hip area that keeps the pressure in this area).

Bottom line is, the rear hip goes in a lineal direction , the front side rotates and counter rotates.

Front side views, and some REAR side views, and more top views, would be good to look at. I am also interested in the ANGLE of the hips during all of the swing.

OK, let me explain what it is I believe you are seeing.

Yes, when the rear hip coils the front hip will close off. The rear hip is moving in one direction the front hip will move in the other. So, when the rear hip is coiling back around the front hip is closing some but the rear femur has not started to work under yet. If you are coiling and moving out with this coil. The rear hip is moving away from the rear foot. Lengthening the rear leg some. Now, as the rear hip gets coiled past the quarter turn phase it is now moving in the same direction but is headed back towards the "infield" or plate from inside. Now, the femur starts to work under the rear hip and that forces the pelvis open, which moves the front hip back and around.

Some MLB hitters coil and don't move out while some coil and move out.

There is a clip of Pujols from behind him that shows this. I will try to find it.

Why does the front side rotate back? In some MLB hitters that have a high leg kick. The pelvis starts to open prior to the front foot getting down. How does that happen if the front foot is not on the ground?

 

[rdbass]

 

[mann]

Good morning Hyp. "
Why does the front side rotate back? In some MLB hitters that have a high leg kick. The pelvis starts to open prior to the front foot getting down. How does that happen if the front foot is not on the ground?"
I have no problem with with the back leg rear hip, being part of Uncoiling.

i know the front foot can be in the air, or toe on ground, some hitters have more "leg flare' than others also.
The OPENING of the hips, this is uncoil in my world.
It also seems like a very important part of the Timing, used by elite hitters.
The opening of the hips, seems to me(seems, seems seems) to trigger slot.
So whether the foot is in the air or not, while staying coiled foward, Counter rotate, is a Trigger.

Hyp, i saw a video a few years back, a coach was talking about the same thing you do, DO NOT UNCOIL.

Have you ever made a video? or do you know the one i am talking about? i will look around for it.

Notice the pinch in the pants, its on the front hip, the back hip has none at this point.

 

[RichK]

Hyp, i saw a video a few years back, a coach was talking about the same thing you do, DO NOT UNCOIL.

Been following this conversation with great interest, including RHC and Hyp's analogies and drawings. Good stuff.

Some time ago, I clipped these explanations of the idea of continual coil/IR-IR-IR rear hip/leg launch from Tom Guerry. Some of it is within the context of criticizing "the move" fyi....It took me a while to understand what he was trying to describe (IR-IR-IR--wtf? how would that work!?), and there's some slogging through esoteric terms/concepts to be done, but the more time I spent with it the more I found it valuable and maybe it's helpful to some here (as yet another way of describing the concepts being advocated in this thread)....if not, carry on : >

Tom G wrote:
- Login

In high level swing, ER in the joint is slop. you do not need to have the rear knee turn outward, but it is fine if you do (see lots of swings, Arod for example). But you can not introduce ER/slop as a way to move "forward by turning" or "uncoiling".

this flaw in the baseball swing would be "hips as top of bottom" and "waist" or "hemispheric" separation which is low level.

Instead you need "held ER" by ongoing IR in the joint with hips as bottom of top and rear leg increasingly moved by escalating IR muscle action in the rear hip joint.

upper/lower body synch/upper resistance/hips as bottom of top is a missing part of descriptions. not understanding the primacy of this relative to emphasis on "the move" will ruin teaching/learning of the baseball swing.

unopposed rear hip IR is bug squish and needs to be fixed. avoid this by hips as bottom of top, not with "the move" or rear hip ER to uncoil.

rear hip needs IR-IR-IR.

Also from Tom G:
http://www.baseballdebate.proboards...tion=display&thread=1280&page=4#ixzz1ZYaDc93e

the action of the high level pattern involves opposed/resisted IR/tug of war with hip socket separation. The IR is held with increasing IR muscle force production as the swing proceeds. In terms of sequencing of SSC's, there is leg aBduction/stretch (that is the primary action sending you forward) that prepares for later ADduction/fire and there is hip/spine flexion/stretch (the "sit") that prepares for hip projection/extension/fire. there is no ER of the rear hip or ground up from the foot.

the weight bearing rear foot can reactively support this by eversion and extension at the ankle, but any groundup/active ER prevents the IR/tug of war/hip socket separation,etc of the high level swing.

 

[redhotcoach]

Thanks Rich. While trying to find common ground, I kept thinking "are they/he thinking 'hips are part of the top, or part of the bottom'?"

If someone believes the core muscles rotate the hips, then I would believe their swing theory is that the hips are part of the bottom.

 

[RayR]

The IR-IR-IR model makes a whole lot more sense if you get up and try and mimic a baseball pitchers full windup....constant IR of rear upper leg....

Been following this conversation with great interest, including RHC and Hyp's analogies and drawings. Good stuff.

Some time ago, I clipped these explanations of the idea of continual coil/IR-IR-IR rear hip/leg launch from Tom Guerry. Some of it is within the context of criticizing "the move" fyi....It took me a while to understand what he was trying to describe (IR-IR-IR--wtf? how would that work!?), and there's some slogging through esoteric terms/concepts to be done, but the more time I spent with it the more I found it valuable and maybe it's helpful to some here (as yet another way of describing the concepts being advocated in this thread)....if not, carry on : >

Tom G wrote:
- Login

In high level swing, ER in the joint is slop. you do not need to have the rear knee turn outward, but it is fine if you do (see lots of swings, Arod for example). But you can not introduce ER/slop as a way to move "forward by turning" or "uncoiling".

this flaw in the baseball swing would be "hips as top of bottom" and "waist" or "hemispheric" separation which is low level.

Instead you need "held ER" by ongoing IR in the joint with hips as bottom of top and rear leg increasingly moved by escalating IR muscle action in the rear hip joint.

upper/lower body synch/upper resistance/hips as bottom of top is a missing part of descriptions. not understanding the primacy of this relative to emphasis on "the move" will ruin teaching/learning of the baseball swing.

unopposed rear hip IR is bug squish and needs to be fixed. avoid this by hips as bottom of top, not with "the move" or rear hip ER to uncoil.

rear hip needs IR-IR-IR.

Also from Tom G:
- Login

the action of the high level pattern involves opposed/resisted IR/tug of war with hip socket separation. The IR is held with increasing IR muscle force production as the swing proceeds. In terms of sequencing of SSC's, there is leg aBduction/stretch (that is the primary action sending you forward) that prepares for later ADduction/fire and there is hip/spine flexion/stretch (the "sit") that prepares for hip projection/extension/fire. there is no ER of the rear hip or ground up from the foot.

the weight bearing rear foot can reactively support this by eversion and extension at the ankle, but any groundup/active ER prevents the IR/tug of war/hip socket separation,etc of the high level swing.

 

[HYP]

Good morning Hyp. "
Why does the front side rotate back? In some MLB hitters that have a high leg kick. The pelvis starts to open prior to the front foot getting down. How does that happen if the front foot is not on the ground?"
I have no problem with with the back leg rear hip, being part of Uncoiling.

i know the front foot can be in the air, or toe on ground, some hitters have more "leg flare' than others also.
The OPENING of the hips, this is uncoil in my world.
It also seems like a very important part of the Timing, used by elite hitters.
The opening of the hips, seems to me(seems, seems seems) to trigger slot.
So whether the foot is in the air or not, while staying coiled foward, Counter rotate, is a Trigger.

Hyp, i saw a video a few years back, a coach was talking about the same thing you do, DO NOT UNCOIL.

Have you ever made a video? or do you know the one i am talking about? i will look around for it.View attachment 3036

Notice the pinch in the pants, its on the front hip, the back hip has none at this point.

I have made videos for my players but nothing that was sold publicly or privately. I Provided for free.

Don't know if I fully understand what you are saying about the pinch in the pants. I do see the rear hip giving the appearance of coming from the inside on a linear path.

 

[rdbass]

The IR-IR-IR model makes a whole lot more sense if you get up and try and mimic a baseball pitchers full windup....constant IR of rear upper leg....

Noontime gifs

 

[HYP]

Good morning Hyp. "
Why does the front side rotate back? In some MLB hitters that have a high leg kick. The pelvis starts to open prior to the front foot getting down. How does that happen if the front foot is not on the ground?"
I have no problem with with the back leg rear hip, being part of Uncoiling.

i know the front foot can be in the air, or toe on ground, some hitters have more "leg flare' than others also.
The OPENING of the hips, this is uncoil in my world.
It also seems like a very important part of the Timing, used by elite hitters.
The opening of the hips, seems to me(seems, seems seems) to trigger slot.
So whether the foot is in the air or not, while staying coiled foward, Counter rotate, is a Trigger.

Hyp, i saw a video a few years back, a coach was talking about the same thing you do, DO NOT UNCOIL.

Have you ever made a video? or do you know the one i am talking about? i will look around for it.View attachment 3036

Notice the pinch in the pants, its on the front hip, the back hip has none at this point.

Do you believe the pelvic girdle can be open and the rear hip still coiled? It sounds like you do not. If you do not then we are on completely opposite sides of the fence and nothing I can say or produce will change your mind.

Let me ask you another question. Do you believe that coiling is a tightening move? If so, why would I tighten something to just loosen it? IMO, when you loosen the coil by uncoiling you are introducing slop or slack.

 

[HYP]

Good morning Hyp. "
Why does the front side rotate back? In some MLB hitters that have a high leg kick. The pelvis starts to open prior to the front foot getting down. How does that happen if the front foot is not on the ground?"
I have no problem with with the back leg rear hip, being part of Uncoiling.

i know the front foot can be in the air, or toe on ground, some hitters have more "leg flare' than others also.
The OPENING of the hips, this is uncoil in my world.
It also seems like a very important part of the Timing, used by elite hitters.
The opening of the hips, seems to me(seems, seems seems) to trigger slot.
So whether the foot is in the air or not, while staying coiled foward, Counter rotate, is a Trigger.

Hyp, i saw a video a few years back, a coach was talking about the same thing you do, DO NOT UNCOIL.

Have you ever made a video? or do you know the one i am talking about? i will look around for it.View attachment 3036

Notice the pinch in the pants, its on the front hip, the back hip has none at this point.

I see a coiled rear hip and an opening pelvis. Do you see an uncoiling rear hip and opening pelvis?

I see the rear hip coming from the inside. Uncoiling the rear hip would send it back on the path it came from and would lose the tightness that the coil created. I do not see that in this swing.

IMO, the coiling and coiling some more rear hip helps with pinching the scap. IMO, if you were to uncoil the rear hip. You would lose the connection and then fight to get it back but by then you are beat.