Illegal pitchs-Florida/UCLA

[Bishop]

Again, we cannot blame the umpires at the lower levels of competition either. The tournament or league directors dictate what rules they will enforce and what they will not. The umpires are stuck in the middle of all this, they do what they are told as best they can.

I agree with you Hal. I didn't articulate my point well. I should have said something more like Start enforcing the rules at the institutionally at all levels of youth competition. Using 'calling' made it sound like I was putting the responibility on the blues.

The youth organizations need the willpower to enforce the rules they have penned. I've said all along that the youth organizations won't display that willpower until the NCAA leads the way. No way a youth organization is going to take the lead on this considering the competitive nature of org vs. org business model.

It's going to take communication from the national offices of the youth orgs to the state orgs and UIC's to affect the change. The blues in the trenches need to know all the folks with a higher pay grade have thier back if they are going to implement enforcement. Much like looks to be happening in the NCAA.

 

[batsics1]

Those who flaunt the rules pay the highest price when the rules are enforced – period. Here’s hoping that Mike Candrea has a long summer to reflect on his comments that the umpire needs to tell him what his pitcher is doing wrong. Give me a break! This guy is the face of softball, he’s on the front cover of the ACE coaching certification booklet and the guy inviting us to join him in six videos of tips and techniques of the best players that includes fundamentals of pitching. Here’s hoping that Az. and Fla. are gone in two. What a great lesson for all coaches and players: ethics are more important than rules. Just because it hasn’t been called doesn’t make it OK.

That being said, I think the rules need to be modified. It needs to be done over the summer and in place by the first of September. At the very least I think the illegal pitch rule should not include base runners advancing – it is too onerous.

I think the game has moved too far in favor of the offense – too many cheap homeruns. Moving the fences back at every field in the country is not very practical in this economic climate. Changing bat technology is a possibility, but there is also a huge cost involved. Allowing pitchers a little more freedom to operate is a cost effective way to create a more balanced game. A balanced game IS the purpose of rules to begin with.

 

[halskinner]

"That being said, I think the rules need to be modified. It needs to be done over the summer and in place by the first of September"

All of the rulebooks are guidebooks only. They are set in stone for national and qualifying tourneys. TDs and League directors are free to add, omit or change any rule they decide to. But then again, they get to the above mentioned tourneys, it will be different.

Many leagues and tournies for the youngest players (8's and 10's mostly) WILL have modifications of the rulebook in place for beginning pitchers. And, even then will be enforced with a velvet glove instead of the iron fist as should be the case for the 12's and older. They should be past the learning stage and know the rules at that point. Doesnt mean they all do but they should.

Additional; Think back to the last Olympics. I saw ALL KINDS of what would be IP's in my part of Californi under ASA or NSA rules. But, they are not enforced at international levels, apperently, so the pitchers all do it. Maybe the coaches are playing under those rules in their heads. Perhaps Coach Candrea is hoping his IP pitcher is the next National Team pitcher so he wants her to pitch like swhe will be doing in the internatiional scene?

 

[SoftSocDad]

Those who flaunt the rules pay the highest price when the rules are enforced – period. Here’s hoping that Mike Candrea has a long summer to reflect on his comments that the umpire needs to tell him what his pitcher is doing wrong. Give me a break! This guy is the face of softball, he’s on the front cover of the ACE coaching certification booklet and the guy inviting us to join him in six videos of tips and techniques of the best players that includes fundamentals of pitching. Here’s hoping that Az. and Fla. are gone in two. What a great lesson for all coaches and players: ethics are more important than rules. Just because it hasn’t been called doesn’t make it OK.

That being said, I think the rules need to be modified. It needs to be done over the summer and in place by the first of September. At the very least I think the illegal pitch rule should not include base runners advancing – it is too onerous.

I think the game has moved too far in favor of the offense – too many cheap homeruns. Moving the fences back at every field in the country is not very practical in this economic climate. Changing bat technology is a possibility, but there is also a huge cost involved. Allowing pitchers a little more freedom to operate is a cost effective way to create a more balanced game. A balanced game IS the purpose of rules to begin with.

Just make the limit the circle. If the circle is too close to the hitters, make it smaller, or move the mound back.

I do agree that, in general, more batted balls is a good thing in terms of player development at ALL levels. That's a solid rationale.

 

[druer]

Those who flaunt the rules pay the highest price when the rules are enforced – period. Here’s hoping that Mike Candrea has a long summer to reflect on his comments that the umpire needs to tell him what his pitcher is doing wrong. Give me a break! This guy is the face of softball, he’s on the front cover of the ACE coaching certification booklet and the guy inviting us to join him in six videos of tips and techniques of the best players that includes fundamentals of pitching. ..... What a great lesson for all coaches and players: ethics are more important than rules. Just because it hasn’t been called doesn’t make it OK.

I LOVE, I mean LOVE AZ. But after throwing a temper tantrum last night, and then taking the time to reflect I have to say that I'm in complete agreemant with the principle of what you are saying. These coaches an pitching instructors knew it was illegal when they scouted the players and knew it was illegal in the fall. Unfortunately for all of the other players that put their hearts and souls into busting chops all year long, they are the ones that paid the price last night for the coaches desire to allow something that players and parents in 10U know is illegal continue doing it.

I hope that the pitchers can regroup and get it worked out so that this isn't the way teams end up finishing their season.

 

[Coachmom]

I'm late in this discussion but I also agree that the illegal pitches are being called correctly. Both Brombacher and Fowlers velocity went down after they were forced to pitch correctly. I'm tired of hearing about so-called stud pitchers who are considered the best but really they are cheater pitchers that have gotten away with cheating for so long that they don't even think they are cheating.
Forcing these pitchers to pitch like everyone else does level they playing field because they cannot cheat.

With that being said, my DD has a tendency to leap. I tell her when she does it and she says she doesn't care because no one calls it.
After watching the games yesterday, she is starting to care!!

 

[sluggers]

That is the point. You make an example of Syracuse, and everyone says, "Ho hum...so what." You make an example of Arizona during the CWS, and suddenly it is, "YIKES!".

 

[Amy in AZ.]

The circle gets wiped out too soon for it to be the margin of error, I think.

Hal, I read that leaping is allowed in international play. I hope you aren't right that he is honing her for the next gold medal. Her health is at stake (IMO).[evidenced by the arm problem, not leaping.]

We are wondering here if UofA's new, young gun of an AD, is concerned about UofA's embarrassment?

Heck, I say give pitcher #3 a try. But she played for the Fowler's, too. I wonder what her stride looks like?

U of A had done great, up until now. Being in the elite 8 should be something to celebrate. Hip hip hooray.

 

[cyfairslam]

I think the NCAA will change the rule and allow both feet to be airborne withing a specified distance from the pitching rubber just like International rules have been modified.

It is the right answer otherwise there is always going to be someone on the fence yelling at the umpire because a pitcher got her toe off the ground a 1/16th of an inch for a inch length.

Laugh as you will at what I said, but a 1/16th of an inch above the ground is illegal by the rules as written. Read what the purist are writing here and on other sites. If you don't call it at a 1/16th of an inch do you call it at an 1/8th, 1/4, 1/2? Does the length airborne need to be 1", 6" , 12"? Is there a time limit on being airborne (milsec). Do you leave it to the judgment of the umpire or do you use instant replay and have the coach drop a flag? Leave it to the judgement of the umpire ?...... remember they were able to use judgement to the point of getting an unfair advantage but that is no longer valid?

Between the hot composite bats and illegal pitching, the sport is in trouble.

BTW It was my impression that the only reason the leap rule was put in was because of a somewhat sexist study that was used as the basis. Someone said if a woman got airborne they could not handle the strain on their body but they would allow it for the men.

 

[Bishop]

Just make the limit the circle. If the circle is too close to the hitters, make it smaller, or move the mound back.

I do agree that, in general, more batted balls is a good thing in terms of player development at ALL levels. That's a solid rationale.

What's with everyone demanding we reinvent the wheel? What have been called wheels on this wagon have been square shaped for years. How about we get back to round, circular wheels feel like on this wagon before we decide they need to be re-engineered. That was perhaps to clever for my own good.

This might come across as blunt, but it's not my intent. I just want to make sure my point is clearly communicated.

The rules are not broken.
Some of the players are. A small portion of them if you look closely.
Lets fix the broken players in the minority before we change the rules forcing EVERYONE to change because a FEW were doing it wrong.
Once the rules are properly enforced and providing the level playing field they were intended to provide it would be time to see if the rules are having the desired effect. If the rules properly enforced and adhered to do not provide a fair field of contest, THEN would be the time to contemplate changing some rules.

There is no way to determine the effectiveness of the rules until the rules are consistently enforced for the full season. It sure wouldn't hurt to have all the coaches and players striving FOR compliance instead of a chunck of them striving AGAINST compliance with the rules.