Illegal pitchs-Florida/UCLA

[SoftSocDad]

I think the NCAA will change the rule and allow both feet to be airborne withing a specified distance from the pitching rubber just like International rules have been modified.

It is the right answer otherwise there is always going to be someone on the fence yelling at the umpire because a pitcher got her toe off the ground a 1/16th of an inch for a inch length.

Laugh as you will at what I said, but a 1/16th of an inch above the ground is illegal by the rules as written. Read what the purist are writing here and on other sites. If you don't call it at a 1/16th of an inch do you call it at an 1/8th, 1/4, 1/2? Does the length airborne need to be 1", 6" , 12"? Is there a time limit on being airborne (milsec). Do you leave it to the judgment of the umpire or do you use instant replay and have the coach drop a flag? Leave it to the judgement of the umpire ?...... remember they were able to use judgement to the point of getting an unfair advantage but that is no longer valid?

Between the hot composite bats and illegal pitching, the sport is in trouble.

BTW It was my impression that the only reason the leap rule was put in was because of a somewhat sexist study that was used as the basis. Someone said if a woman got airborne they could not handle the strain on their body but they would allow it for the men.

What's with everyone demanding we reinvent the wheel? What have been called wheels on this wagon have been square shaped for years. How about we get back to round, circular wheels feel like on this wagon before we decide they need to be re-engineered. That was perhaps to clever for my own good.

This might come across as blunt, but it's not my intent. I just want to make sure my point is clearly communicated.

The rules are not broken.
Some of the players are. A small portion of them if you look closely.
Lets fix the broken players in the minority before we change the rules forcing EVERYONE to change because a FEW were doing it wrong.
Once the rules are properly enforced and providing the level playing field they were intended to provide it would be time to see if the rules are having the desired effect. If the rules properly enforced and adhered to do not provide a fair field of contest, THEN would be the time to contemplate changing some rules.

There is no way to determine the effectiveness of the rules until the rules are consistently enforced for the full season. It sure wouldn't hurt to have all the coaches and players striving FOR compliance instead of a chunck of them striving AGAINST compliance with the rules.

(taken from another site)

Additionally, under the ASA Rulebook Pitching Regulations for Fast Pitch Softball:

"Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may drag no higher than the level plane of the ground."

And then there's this umpire's statement from earlier in the thread:

Besides, even IF you are correct that the umps are missing some, it is probably because it is not their top priority at the time. As much as people like to think the umps are out gunning for the pitchers, they have other duties. If there is a runner in a stealing position, the ump is going to focus on the runner leaving early, and probably only catch the pitch out of the corner of his/her eye. Now, once the runners have no where to go, or if there are no runners on, you are more likely to see the IP called.

 

[SoftSocDad]

The rules are not broken.
Some of the players are. A small portion of them if you look closely.
Lets fix the broken players in the minority before we change the rules forcing EVERYONE to change because a FEW were doing it wrong.

Again, I'm not opposed to playing the game within the already established parameters.

But, in regards to change - which seems to be part of the basis of your opposition - didn't the ASA and National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) recently move the mound back from 40 feet to 43 feet?

 

[SoftSocDad]

Fowler's pitches dropped up to 5mph, when she tried to correct it.

That could be a function of overthinking something she'd previously done unconsciously.

 

[T Red]

Here are the rules for the NCAA. NCAA Publications - 2010-2011 Women's Softball Rules (2 Year Publication) Online NOW

10.4.4 No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the
initial drive from the pitcher’s plate. The pivot foot must slide/drag on
the ground.

They do not even allow for a hole in front of the mound. It's tough to drag thru a hole.

Tim

 

[ASAPAump]

10.4.4 No leaping is allowed. The pitcher may not become airborne on the
initial drive from the pitcher’s plate. The pivot foot must slide/drag on
the ground.

They do not even allow for a hole in front of the mound. It's tough to drag thru a hole.

I'm willing to bet that very few college/university fields have holes at the pitcher's plate (unless the pitcher dug one during the game). That's what field crews are for.

 

[Bishop]

Again, I'm not opposed to playing the game within the already established parameters.

But, in regards to change - which seems to be part of the basis of your opposition - didn't the ASA and National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) recently move the mound back from 40 feet to 43 feet?

Am I resistant to change for selfish reasons also? You bet your bippy. All my pitchers that I coach are legal. If the rules change I have to go figure out which of the illegal mechanics I've spent my (admittedly short) coaching career trying coach out of my players will provide an advantage. Then I have learn how to teach those mechanics to allow the kids to compete on the new and improved playing field without destroying thier bodies. It's safe to say I don't welcome the thought. That being said, if that's the way they decide to go. Fine, we will adapt.

I am not opposed to change for the right reasons. I'm opposed to change that appears to cater to the wishes of the people who have been illegal for years and are just now finally being held accountable. We should change the rules because teams like Florida and AU who have a history of pitchers with illegal mechanics that have been getting away with it for years are suddenly getting hurt by it? Those teams being held accountable is ruining the game?

Did you watch the Washington vs Georgia game? I really enjoyed it, hence the reason I'm trying to have an intellegent discussion on 4 hours of sleep. Very exciting game. Why do we need to change the rules when two legal teams playing against each other can give us great games like that? The sport looks pretty damned healthy to me from that perspective.

Yep, the 40 - 43ft change was interesting for sure. My state adopted that this year, we just finished our first HS season with that rule. Some teams adapted to the change well. We either adapted well, or our existing pitching style was conducive to to the change. Other teams that were formerly strong/dominant...not so much. Though what you are talking about is a change that is going to give the batter a shade more reaction time to hit the ball. That's a bit different than changing the fundamental mechanics of a high stress motion on an athletes body.

This is an opinion that follows. What you are proposing makes as much sense to me as if the 'the bats are too hot' crowd decided the correct fix for that hot buttion is to make drop 0 bats manditory to slow down the swing speeds. Certainly no ill effects could happen with the muscles and joints of the kids swinging those bats right? It just doesn't seem like a sound solution to the problem that should be implemented without investigating the effect it's going to have on the players.

I always like how folks that want the rules changed to allow the illegal things to continue, and when presented with a factual tid bit like Amy there below they respond with an opinion as if that proves anything.

 

[FPump]

After the third or fourth trip to the circle and umpires and it fixed NOTHING with the pitcher, WHY THE HECK DID CANDREA LEAVE HER IN?

Don't blame the umpires for enforcing the rules. Blame the head coaches, the team pitching coaches, instructors AND THE PITCHERS themselves. Is anyone going to tell me she has NOT been taught to cheat? Good grief! She was practically standing straight up during the entire pitch! No wonder her push off was more UP than FORWARD!

The umpires did an excellent job, iMO. If you are going to cheat at pitching and the umpires are going to enforce the rules, you should be called on it from the very first pitch,,, AND SHE WAS. The pitcher and the coach should have fixed the problem right then. They did not and you see the result.

How many times have I heard in other threads that a pitcher gets to a qualifying tournament, a state championship, a metro, regional or the national championships and all of a sudden, they get called for an IP every third pitch?

Same thing gpoing on here.

I have no sympathy for for pitching instructors that teach pitchers to pitch outside the rules.

Great post Hal. I was hoping you would weigh in on the issue. Appreciate your comments on the umpires, who I feel have been ufairly criticized.

 

[mudbug]

I personally dont care for the rules. A crow-hop , yes should be illegal. Leaps? No, doesnt matter.

Had an umpire tell me at a game a few weeks ago she was not going to call IP when I remarked as opposing pitcher was warming up, because there was a hole in front of the rubber. I said good, I dont want you to, but dont call it on ours either, lets play ball.

Good pitchers should be able to push the envelope of what the ump allows, but also should be able to adjust to be legal if needed. If they cant, they dont need to be pitching in those situations. Pitching rule enforcement isnt much different from strike zone, it can vary game to game, ump to ump. Some should quit whining an just go play, within whatever constraints a particular ump gives you.

Again, UCLA beat the snot out of florida. I wouldnt blame that on a few IPs, if florida or any other team is foolish enough to have pitchers that cannot adjust to what the ump calls, that is their problem, their weakness, and a legitimate reason to lose. Just one factor out of a myriad of them that determines who will come out on top on a given day. A given ump may take a given pitchers go-to pitch out on anyday by not calling the zone like they are used to. No difference, but no one is complaining about that or anything else that is less visible.

 

[halskinner]

I personally dont care for the rules. A crow-hop , yes should be illegal. Leaps? No, doesnt matter.

Had an umpire tell me at a game a few weeks ago she was not going to call IP when I remarked as opposing pitcher was warming up, because there was a hole in front of the rubber. I said good, I dont want you to, but dont call it on ours either, lets play ball.

Good pitchers should be able to push the envelope of what the ump allows, but also should be able to adjust to be legal if needed. If they cant, they dont need to be pitching in those situations. Pitching rule enforcement isnt much different from strike zone, it can vary game to game, ump to ump. Some should quit whining an just go play, within whatever constraints a particular ump gives you.

Again, UCLA beat the snot out of florida. I wouldnt blame that on a few IPs, if florida or any other team is foolish enough to have pitchers that cannot adjust to what the ump calls, that is their problem, their weakness, and a legitimate reason to lose. Just one factor out of a myriad of them that determines who will come out on top on a given day. A given ump may take a given pitchers go-to pitch out on anyday by not calling the zone like they are used to. No difference, but no one is complaining about that or anything else that is less visible.

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Balls and strikes (judgement calls) to an illegal physical act that EVERYONE in the park can see.

 

[mudbug]

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Balls and strikes (judgement calls) to an illegal physical act that EVERYONE in the park can see.

I see the vast majority of pitches by most pitchers are technically an illegal pitch the way the rules are written, the umps just decides what is excessive. They dont call it at all when the drag foot obviously leaves the ground for maybe 6" or so, even if no hole, but they might if its 12-18". Problem is that foot cant leave the ground for even 1/16" of distance under the written rule, unless parallel to the ground over the hole. It can be very judgemental as to when to call an IP and when it is not, that is why it isnt called unless its excessive.

To me, many pitches are still technically illegal, even after calling IPs, they are just usually "less" illegal, not so flagrant. That IS the reason for the call after all, to tone it down, not to eliminate it totally per the rules because they arent strictly enforceable without slow motion video on every pitch.

But my point was that if pitchers are going to push the envelope, being able to adjust when IPs are being called is no different from adjusting to a tighter strike zone or other game variable. Its not an ideal world, the calls on IP are not necessarily black and white any more than the strike zone is, nor can they be. Yes, there is definite undisputable IPs, and yes there are definite undiputable balls. But they are NOT all distinct, there is a big grey zone for determining each with the human eye. They give the pitcher the benefit of doubt however, which enables them to keep pushing limits.