Hitting Questions?

[CoachB25]

Tom, you know little of what SE talks about/believes nor are you aware of any of his analysis per his video library, current website discussions, etc. SISOFTBALL, I'm hoping you find the information I provided helpful. This thread has been hijacked enough.

Tom, might I suggest that you make a response in your own thread. Then, you can reference it each time, cut and paste the portions you want to interject into any discussion and save time. It might be possible for you to label them Point 1, Point 2, ... It'll save you the time of constantly retyping.

Merry Christmas!

 

[madskilz]

Wow .. I feel sorry for the person who originally asked for help.

Tom - what is the link to your website? As much knowledge as you have, you surely have a website and I would imagine a book or two on the subject.

FWIW

 

[druer]

What are some of the best drills to keep the hitter from pulling their front shoulder off of the ball?

Are one-handed drills effective and what are some of the most common if they are used?

Also, what is the best instructional video that explains hitting philosophy as well as drills used?

Hitting is a "whole body" action so the front shoulder pulling off can come for any part of the body: head, hands or foot. Seriously the problem could be her front foot. I once attended a clinic with Dionna Harris - Leading hitter on the 1996 US Olympic Team - and her comments have helped me fix a lot of girls with the same problem. You see many players stride and when doing so open their front foot to about a 45 degree angle before beginning the swing process with their arms at all. For some that causes them to open their upper body and front shoulder as well. Her philosophy is to start with the front foot pointed in just slightly and stride with it still closed to avoid opening the body to soon. Your daughter's problem could be starting in her front foot and have nothing to do with her arms at all. [Not saying that is the best way for everyone to approach the batters box, but I've seen this work for many girls that open to soon because their front foot over rotates too early who weren't just pull hitters.]

"Quick to the ball ... long through the ball" - is a slogan that many have probably heard repeatedly and I've also seen many drills to work on that. The goal is maximum power and drills to emphasize this also make it impossible to open the front shoulder early:

1. Have someone stand at the point of contact for a pitch belly high down the middle. Batter takes bat to that point of contact (belly button of person standing there) and tries to drive through the person. Most will have a tendency to roll their wrist and pull the bat to the left and make no impact on the person. The drill is to continue to finish swing and continue forcing the person to move backwards ie "long through the ball."

2. Have someone on their knees extending their arm palm up holding the ball at the same point of contact. Batter again takes bat to point of contact and objective is finish swing (slowly inch by inch) keeping their bat still in contact with the ball holders arm all the way to the shoulder if they can. Again "long through the ball."

Third option is more mental than physical ... she could just be trying to pull every pitch because younger players have a lot of success pulling the ball (because the tee ballers, pee-wees, minors can't throw them out.) Until they face a pitcher who can throw outside consistently they have success pulling the ball and thus build bad habits. If it is mental then the solution is a mental one in which you convince her to want to hit the ball to right field. A shot to the fence in left field will almost always result in a double. The ball will be relayed to the shortstop about 20 feet in the outfield and no-way the player/coach is challenging the shortstops arm because the throw to 3rd is well within her normal throwing distance. However, a ball hit to the corner in right field will be cutoff by the second basemen instead again at a time when the runner is at second however, now the decision is "do I press my luck and try for 3rd now?" Instead of the shortstop now the person holding the ball is a girl who normally throws the ball 20-40 feet but now has a throw of about 80-90 feet. A girl who likely doesn't practice that kind of a throw very often. A girl who will expect that the person is stopping at second and will have to react and make a perfect throw, with minimal practice. I like those odds. Admittedly at "elite" levels of play that won't work because that second basemen will have a strong arm, will practice that throw, and her teammates will be telling her to make the throw before she receives the ball. But for most thinking about a triple for the exact same hit as a double is the mental incentive needed to work on hitting outside pitches off a tee over and over and over. The second mental reason to work on hitting outside pitches to right field is game winning situations. Girls on 2nd and 3rd with less than 2 outs. The last place in the world you want to hit the ball is to left and give the third basemen a chance to get that lead runner out. At most levels of play a ball to the right side of the field scores the run. So when you set the tee up and have her to the right side over and over, before you set the pitch on the tee just repeat "Runner at 3rd here is your chance to win the game."

Lot's of ways to attack the problem and not knowing if her problem is with her head, foot, follow through or what age she is I've tried to give some comments on all of them. Final point would be to remember 2 important things:
1. Batting Average is the way that hitters are measured. If she's batting .456 and pulling her front shoulder, then pulling her front shoulder is a good thing for now. If she used to bat .456 and moved up to new age group/level and is now batting .057 then you definitely need to work on the problem.
2. Confidence - 80% of hitting is based on confidence. Understand that unless she is looking to change and correct the problem, then changing her swing will likely serve to lower her confidence initially and likely lower her batting average initially.

 

[Mark H]

Short to the ball is good, depending of course on how that's interpreted. And I definitely agree hitting is a whole body, even more, a total systems problem. Long through the ball sounds good till you think about it or understand it. Long through the zone means slow bat speed through the zone. If you have questions about why we could go into it.

 

[Shawn]

While I agree the posture can be important, I do not think that simple getting into a better posture achieves very much on it's own.

I started to read through the thread, but I can only read so many posts before I get tired and usually stay away from threads that go on for page after page. I just don't find these threads to be very useful in most cases. And it takes forever to read through them.

What I've see on the Internet with people trying to teach posture. Is often they just work on achieving a posture, for the sake of being in a certain posture, and in 9 out 10 kids I've seen posted, make the position stiff and static, muscle the swing out of the posture, and lack any qualities of a effective and efficient swing.

I've seen some strange stuff done with the posture, such as trying to stay in a specific posture into the follow through.

I've seen some strange stuff on setup and allot of focus on the stance, and in many cases the kid didn't know what to do afterwards.

It seems any technique is thrown out the window, just for the sake of attaining a better posture.

If I could see the hitter swing in person, I could give a better answer.

While I agree that posture can help with the problem, you have to step back and watch the entire swing closely. Chances are it can be traced back to a sequence issue, or locking up muscle groups (muscling up), creating the issue. Or trying to do much in the swing. It can be trying to do to much before foot plant, or something in that nature. It could be trying to use the lead arm in a pulling action, and instead of it being natural, and it becomes an issue. And with girls, many of them rotate way to much (hips/shoulder are to open), before the hands come forward.

 

[RayR]

While I agree the posture can be important, I do not think that simple getting into a better posture achieves very much on it's own.

I started to read through the thread, but I can only read so many posts before I get tired and usually stay away from threads that go on for page after page. I just don't find these threads to be very useful in most cases. And it takes forever to read through them.

What I've see on the Internet with people trying to teach posture. Is often they just work on achieving a posture, for the sake of being in a certain posture, and in 9 out 10 kids I've seen posted, make the position stiff and static, muscle the swing out of the posture, and lack any qualities of a effective and efficient swing.

I've seen some strange stuff done with the posture, such as trying to stay in a specific posture into the follow through.

I've seen some strange stuff on setup and allot of focus on the stance, and in many cases the kid didn't know what to do afterwards.

It seems any technique is thrown out the window, just for the sake of attaining a better posture.

If I could see the hitter swing in person, I could give a better answer.

While I agree that posture can help with the problem, you have to step back and watch the entire swing closely. Chances are it can be traced back to a sequence issue, or locking up muscle groups (muscling up), creating the issue. Or trying to do much in the swing. It can be trying to do to much before foot plant, or something in that nature. It could be trying to use the lead arm in a pulling action, and instead of it being natural, and it becomes an issue. And with girls, many of them rotate way to much (hips/shoulder are to open), before the hands come forward.

You are assuming that the player was creating any hitting posture to begin with and we all know that this is not the case 99% of the time. Different body types respond to being in different postures (Rose vs. Griffey). It is not an absolute position.

 

[Shawn]

MTS,

I'm not sure I understand what you said,

"I assumed that the hitter was creating any body posture to begin with?"

And also, I don't know who you have been working with, but most hitters have decent posture. So I totally disagree that 99% do not have good posture,

The only one's who don't have good posture are weaker hitters, lower level hitters (rec or B ball). In these cases I would agree that 99% of these hitters might have poor posture.

 

[RayR]

MTS,

I'm not sure I understand what you said,

"I assumed that the hitter was creating any body posture to begin with?"

And also, I don't know who you have been working with, but most hitters have decent posture. So I totally disagree that 99% do not have good posture,

The only one's who don't have good posture are weaker hitters, lower level hitters (rec or B ball). In these cases I would agree that 99% of these hitters might have poor posture.

Shawn,

Where are these "most hitters", College?

What is decent posture in your opinion? I define as a position that prepares the hitter for ballistic movement. I sure as heck don't see that too much in HS and below. I would say most have no clue how to get ready to hit.

A hitter can bend the knees and tilt over at the waist, but that in itself ain't posture!

 

[SBFAMILY]

Posture or Stance as taught on RVP, has many styles. Not to go to deep into Anatomy, but since this is a softball site. Men and women have different stances or posture. Women we call it Sequential core loading and it only works one way. Bend at the waist and soften the knees. Easy way to test it , is put a piece of paper under the back heel. If you do this correctly you can pull out the paper. If you bend the knees first it won't work. We have spent alot of money on research on injuries and found out why women have more ACL injuries then men. It starts with Anatomy and the hip structure. So you cannot talk stance or posture and look a Men then Women. If you are a male you can stand erect up against a wall with both feet against the wall. with no gap. A female cannot. If you are a male coach , coaching women, you need to understand these differences or you are going to get kids injured.

 

[Mark H]

Bend at the waist and soften the knees. .

Sounds standard for both to me.