Have ya ever seen a worse call?

[cuzmail]

I wish you had more faith in sports officials. Speaking for myself as an umpire, after 3500+ softball games under my belt, I have never once had a "make up call." If I miss one call, I'm sure as hell going to make sure I don't miss two. It also makes no sense to do so. I already may have one side mad at me. What's it worth to have both teams mad at me?

Nothing to do with lack of faith and I did not say that you have ever done this. In fact, I have no idea who you are to even make a statement like that.

It has everything to do with experience and nothing to do with faith. Too many times I see a bad call against us or another team and then a short while later a bad call benefitting the team with the previous bad call. Coincidence? Not likely as it happens too often. I have faith that there are a large number of excellent umpires out there. I also am realistic enough to realize that there are a number of umpires out there who are not of the same ethical quality as others.

 

[JDBerry]

I think it has more to do with human nature. I can assure that an umpire/ref efforting not to be bias can have a subconscious tendency to make rebound calls after close calls where it might appear to be a biased call. That, actually, is the effort of trying to be ethical.

 

[GI Tom]

Nothing to do with lack of faith and I did not say that you have ever done this. In fact, I have no idea who you are to even make a statement like that.

It has everything to do with experience and nothing to do with faith. Too many times I see a bad call against us or another team and then a short while later a bad call benefitting the team with the previous bad call. Coincidence? Not likely as it happens too often. I have faith that there are a large number of excellent umpires out there. I also am realistic enough to realize that there are a number of umpires out there who are not of the same ethical quality as others.

Not all coaches are the same, not all players are the same, so why is it that some coaches and parents expect all umpires to be the same? Sometimes you have bad umpires, just like you have bad players and bad coaches. Sometimes you have good umpires that have a bad day or a bad game, just like coaches and players can have a bad day or game.

Bad calls are bad calls. I've certainly had my share of them as a coach and making them as an official. The next time you see what you perceive as more than one bad call in the game, it's likely more similar to you making more than one bad coaching decision in a game than it is of your conspiracy theory regarding "bad calls". Sometimes, it just happens, despite your best efforts or intentions.

If anyone thinks putting on that powder blue shirt and heather gray pants makes me any less or more human than the rest of you, you are highly mistaken. It's just a shirt and pair of pants. There's no magical powers that come with them.

 

[cuzmail]

Not all coaches are the same, not all players are the same, so why is it that some coaches and parents expect all umpires to be the same? Sometimes you have bad umpires, just like you have bad players and bad coaches. Sometimes you have good umpires that have a bad day or a bad game, just like coaches and players can have a bad day or game.

Bad calls are bad calls. I've certainly had my share of them as a coach and making them as an official. The next time you see what you perceive as more than one bad call in the game, it's likely more similar to you making more than one bad coaching decision in a game than it is of your conspiracy theory regarding "bad calls". Sometimes, it just happens, despite your best efforts or intentions.

If anyone thinks putting on that powder blue shirt and heather gray pants makes me any less or more human than the rest of you, you are highly mistaken. It's just a shirt and pair of pants. There's no magical powers that come with them.

Exactly my point and agree right up to the second sentence in the second paragraph.

If anyone thinks that the powder blue shirt and heather gray pants are just a shirt and a pair of pants without powers then they are mistaken. Those clothes allow a regular person to become an official that players and coaches have little input with but those clothes control everything. With that control they can either officiate a game as it happens or alter a game's outcome. If anyone thinks different than that then IMO they are just silly.

Now I am sure we all realize that as humans umpires will make a mistake/bad call from time to time. I don't have a problem with that. However, I do have a problem when they know that a mistake was made or could have been made and will not even consider the idea that a mistake could have happened. I even have a more of an issue with the umpire partner who will not overule the other even when they know a bad call was just issued.

As far as coaching mistakes go, yep I make them all the time just as I am sure that other coaches do too. To compare a coach's mistake to an umpire's mistake is a bit like comparing the old apples and oranges analogy. The coach is a member of the team. If they make a bad call, teach a incorrect play response, or fail to teach a skill, then they have handicapped their team and contributed to a potential loss as a member of their team. Any team member that contributes to a negative outcome is completely different than a negative outcome from an outside source. The umpire is not a member of the team.

With all that being said, coaches, umpires, and players are all humans and will make mistakes on a regular basis. The difference is how the mistakes are dealth with. Honesty always seems to be the best policy. Correcting the mistake where possible is a close second. That leads back to my original statement earlier in this tread about the FU call being a make up call for the mistaken PU missed knee into the pitch.

 

[GI Tom]

Good umpires do attempt to correct their mistakes. And your splitting hairs on your analogy. Impacting the outcome of a game through a bad or missed call or bad coaching decision or a bad player or team performance still impacts the outcome of the game. I fail to see how one is any better than the other. But, that's a matter of opinion I suppose.

A bad or missed call is simply that. On a banger at first, I only call what I see, not what you see. What you and I see may be two different things. We can argue that point into eternity.

I believe you have a conspiracy theory that there is some unwritten umpire rule that makeup calls are conducted with regularity. I have called just under 1,000 softball games in my umpire career, not alot by some standards, and more than enough by others. I have not yet been invited to this double super secret club yet, if one exists. I did call some my fellow umpires and UIC's, they say there isn't one either. I even tried the 35 year vet I've called with. I had to yell it at him because he's both blind and deaf, but eventually he confirmed the same.

In closing, about the clothes, my blue shirt and your coaches jersey and the players jersey's add no special powers contrary to your belief. The game consists of players, coaches and umpires. The clothes we wear only do two things, one let us on the field and two define our responsibilities while on the field. Our performances in conducting our responsibilites are all done by the humans in those clothes.

 

[cuzmail]

Good umpires do attempt to correct their mistakes. And your splitting hairs on your analogy. Impacting the outcome of a game through a bad or missed call or bad coaching decision or a bad player or team performance still impacts the outcome of the game. I fail to see how one is any better than the other. But, that's a matter of opinion I suppose.

A bad or missed call is simply that. On a banger at first, I only call what I see, not what you see. What you and I see may be two different things. We can argue that point into eternity.

I believe you have a conspiracy theory that there is some unwritten umpire rule that makeup calls are conducted with regularity. I have called just under 1,000 softball games in my umpire career, not alot by some standards, and more than enough by others. I have not yet been invited to this double super secret club yet, if one exists. I did call some my fellow umpires and UIC's, they say there isn't one either. I even tried the 35 year vet I've called with. I had to yell it at him because he's both blind and deaf, but eventually he confirmed the same.

In closing, about the clothes, my blue shirt and your coaches jersey and the players jersey's add no special powers contrary to your belief. The game consists of players, coaches and umpires. The clothes we wear only do two things, one let us on the field and two define our responsibilities while on the field. Our performances in conducting our responsibilites are all done by the humans in those clothes.

No hair splitting or conspiracy - just reality. That statement sounds like it would come from someone who lived in a world where they believe that the planet is only inhabited by only upstanding and ethical people. Unfortunately, that isn't true and I truly believe most people realize that. Umpires and coaches are no different than any other professions such as doctors, lawyers, bankers, politicians, ...etc. there are ethical and unethical people populating them. To think otherwise is simply ridiculous.

No one but you has mentioned anything about a secret society of umpires.

 

[GI Tom]

Exactly correct, there are unethical and ethical people populating all aspects of life. So, when you see your perceived bad calls again, sometimes it's just an ethical person, with a blue shirt, tasked with being an arbiter, having a bad day. Or perhaps, your local umpire associations only attract unethical umpires more so than elsewhere. Or, perhaps it's really not a bad call sometimes, you just think it is.

You are the one who stated more often than not and that you believed it was no coincidence in your earlier post, not me. I'm stating I believe it's the other way around.

So, if we're going the philosophical route, I suppose in essence, I'm arguing that humanity in general (and umpiring) has more ethical than non-ethical people. I am conceding (as I did earlier) that there can be "bad" people (and umpires). We are now far away from a softball discussion.

Or, maybe you're just more unlucky as a coach than others.

 

[cuzmail]

That's it. You nailed it! I am unlucky.

 

[cuzmail]

I wish you had more faith in sports officials. Speaking for myself as an umpire, after 3500+ softball games under my belt, I have never once had a "make up call." If I miss one call, I'm sure as hell going to make sure I don't miss two. It also makes no sense to do so. I already may have one side mad at me. What's it worth to have both teams mad at me?

Warning: Reviving this thread and taking it a little off topic.

My faith in umpires (not all) was shaken a little more this past Sunday. Definitely the worst officiated game in my history! Missed calls, moving strike zone, and plate blue calling balls and strikes before the ball even makes it to the plate! On a few ocasions, he even called a ball or strike before the batter fouled it off. How does that happen?

Even the opposing team came over after the game and talked about the officiating. It did turn into a great lesson for the girls. We lost by two. Oh well, we move on.

 

[GI Tom]

How does that happen?.

See your post #48.