Definitions of terminology

[obbay]

I hear these terms being thrown around and I was wondering if someone could provide definitions. I know generally what they are, but I want to make sure I'm using the right terms and/or using them correctly.

pre-load (is there a "load" and if so when?)

launch?

slotting?

what is the sequence prior to contact ( starting with "pre-load" and ending at "contact" or 'extension")

thank you

 

[Mark H]

In bb and fp what people mean by various terms varies with each speaker and oft times the intended definition bears no resemblance to what Webster would say about the term. So you just have to ask enough questions to figure out what they mean. The flip side is, if I answer a question using terms as I understand them, someone else may get an entirely different meaning from my answer than I intended. This is why I often answer questions with a video clip.

 

[SBFAMILY]

If you want a sequence go to Right View Pro and from that web site they list the steps in sequence for you. As Mark stated a term like slotting means different things to different people. I have them as follows in how RVP presents them.
Stance
Negative move
Toe Touch
Heel Plant
Connection
Bat Lag
Contact
Extension
Finish

 

[obbay]

Thank you both!

 

[RichK]

I have two questions on that sequence, if anyone wouldn't mind:

1. do you consider negative move and toe touch essentially simultaneous, ie, stride-separate as a single "counter" movement into hitting position?

2. I've heard connection talked about as elbow connecting to hip, and also as keeping the "box" connected shoulder-shoulder-elbow-elbow while in rotation. is either or both of them right? or is it something altogether different?

TKS

 

[SBFAMILY]

RichK: Look at posts by infubuildit. Dana did an excellent job of explaining Both. His post on connection was excellent. Just search his name.

 

[Mark H]

I have two questions on that sequence, if anyone wouldn't mind:

1. do you consider negative move and toe touch essentially simultaneous, ie, stride-separate as a single "counter" movement into hitting position?

If I understand you I doubt he means that. As always, refer to video of elite hitters to both check and interpret what anyone says about hitting. Siggy's Hitting Clips - ImageEvent

2. I've heard connection talked about as elbow connecting to hip, and also as keeping the "box" connected shoulder-shoulder-elbow-elbow while in rotation. is either or both of them right? or is it something altogether different?

TKS

I don't think the fellow whose name is most associated with the term Connection, Paul Nyman, would define connection that way but he's welcome to disagree with me. To me, connection means you connect the rotating torso and adducting and abducting scaps to the bat efficiently and effectively. As he might say, it's as simple and as complicated as that. I would add it IS that and not a certain position, feel or cue though all three of those will or can be a factor.

 

[Wellphyt]

I have two questions on that sequence, if anyone wouldn't mind:

1. do you consider negative move and toe touch essentially simultaneous, ie, stride-separate as a single "counter" movement into hitting position?

2. I've heard connection talked about as elbow connecting to hip, and also as keeping the "box" connected shoulder-shoulder-elbow-elbow while in rotation. is either or both of them right? or is it something altogether different?
TKS

In the high level swing the front shoulder is turned down and in as the hitter strides. Prior to that move, the hitter will cock their rear hip. Or as Ted would say "you have to go back to go forward". I've found a good way to learn how elite hitters cock their hips, is to duplicate Pujols. Because of Pujols' low wide stance, there is only one way to duplicate what he does. Once you figure out what he's doing, it's fairly easy to recreate his rear hip bind in other stances.

Regarding your second question, my experience has been that too much focus on slotting the rear elbow can lead to a swing with a "push or a pull". I also believe that emphasizing the shoulders is another big pitfall that can lead to a swing with a "push or a pull". Some on here will no doubt vehemently disagree with that last statement. Do elite hitters keep their hands connected to their back shoulder up until they turn the corner? Yes. The question is how do they do it?

I struggled with the whole connection/push/bat drag issue with my daughter. It wasn't until I changed my focus from the shoulders and elbows, to how the hands work early in the high level swing, did I figure it out. Some call it "Scooping Sand with the Top Hand", some call it "Top Hand Torque", others call it something else. Whatever you choose to call it, IMO it is a very important part of the swing. It's the difference between "pushing or pulling" and "whipping".

Here is a quote on the subject from Jack Mankin:

"From the hundreds of swing reviews I have done for young hitters, I would say that about 95% of the batter's problems in generating power and bat speed stem from how they initiate the swing. The defining difference between those that have real pop in their bat and those that don't is determined from how much rearward bat speed they develop from the launch to the lag position. Call the mechanic THT or whatever term you choose, all great hitters keep their hands back at the shoulder and apply forces at the handle and accelerate the bat-head rearward -- First, 90 degrees rearward to the lag position, then 90 more degrees around toward contact. -- Hitters with less pop initiate the swing by driving the hands and knob forward while leaving the bat-head dragging behind the hands well into the swing."

In my experience, if you maintain the "Triangle" (box) but ignore the early hand forces, you will almost certainly "push or pull" into contact.

 

[ssarge]

In the high level swing the front shoulder is turned down and in as the hitter strides.

Probably an OK way to describe it, and this is what many hitters actually do. But, as Mark indicated, it ISN'T what ELITE hitters do. In order to LOAD, they don't "turn the shoulders in," they abduct / adduct (stretch / pinch) the scapula regions, and from an anatomical perspective, the difference is staggering.

And almost impossible to see looking at video. The position of the shoulders looks very similar in either case. The difference is under the covers, and you can absolutely feel the difference when you do it.


What Mankin is describing (THT) is NOT a loading technique. Neither is your description of using the hands more actively, rather than the shoulders to launch / swing the bat. Those movements are post-load, not a part of the load.

You are correct that pushing / pulling is sub-optimal.

Do elite hitters keep their hands connected to their back shoulder up until they turn the corner? Yes. The question is how do they do it?

That's for sure.

 

[ifubuildit]

Scott

Fully agree. Good response

Dana.