Clues That The Scorebook Is Cooked

[FP26]

who would you give the error to? The 3b who didn't charge the ball or the pitcher who didnt?

The plays I am referring to would have been simple plays for the 3b. Pushed down the line to the point that it would be extremely difficult for the pitcher to make a play on them. When reviewing the "ordinary effort" phrase below, this is exactly how I would have ruled them. Not only would they have been simple routine plays for our travel ball team, but would have been the same for all of the high school teams we have played so far. When the one team we played realized that the 3b was not making any effort to get to the ball, you could tell they made a concerted effort to push the ball in her direction in order to take advantage of that. Mistakes are going to happen, but when a player clearly doesn't even try, I don't think that should be held against the pitcher.

"A key phrase in determining whether a play is an error or not is if the fielder could have “handled the ball with ordinary effort”, and does not then it is an error. Some key points: A fielder can get an error even if he doesn’t touch the ball

The comment after Rule 10.12(a)(1) says “…It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. … For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgement, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner.”

 

[MNDad]

The plays I am referring to would have been simple plays for the 3b. Pushed down the line to the point that it would be extremely difficult for the pitcher to make a play on them. When reviewing the "ordinary effort" phrase below, this is exactly how I would have ruled them. Not only would they have been simple routine plays for our travel ball team, but would have been the same for all of the high school teams we have played so far. When the one team we played realized that the 3b was not making any effort to get to the ball, you could tell they made a concerted effort to push the ball in her direction in order to take advantage of that. Mistakes are going to happen, but when a player clearly doesn't even try, I don't think that should be held against the pitcher.

"A key phrase in determining whether a play is an error or not is if the fielder could have “handled the ball with ordinary effort”, and does not then it is an error. Some key points: A fielder can get an error even if he doesn’t touch the ball

The comment after Rule 10.12(a)(1) says “…It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. … For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgement, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner.”

As a pitcher’s Dad I hear you, but it doesn’t work that way. Lack of hustle or misjudgements are mental mistakes and don’t count as errors. They can only be charged an error without touching it if they were making a play on the ball and outright missed it. I did find it interesting that NFHS rules are extremely vague in describing errors and merely states any “misplay”. Perhaps it’s covered someplace else that I’m not aware of. If not I need to go back and redo DD’s HS stats and record every game as no-hitters!

NCAA Softball

NO ERROR IS CHARGED
SECTION 22. No error is charged to a fielder in the following situations:
a. When a ball is misplayed due to being lost in the sun or lights, blown by the wind, or if
the fielder slips and falls—even if contact is made with the ball.
b. When there is a mental mistake. Throwing to the wrong base is considered a mental mistake.
c. When a catcher attempts a pick-off unless the runner advances an additional base.
d. When a runner returns safely to her original base on a rundown.
e. When a runner beats a wild throw or dropped catch (unless an additional base is
gained). This also pertains to the second or third out of a double or triple play.
Note—A dropped ball by the receiver is an error if the runner would have been out.
f. When a ball is hit with such force, so slowly or with erratic spin that it would require
more than ordinary effort to play the ball.
g. When a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play.
h. When a fielder drops a ball after running a considerable distance or if she fails in her
attempt to catch the ball while running at a high rate of speed.
i. When a fielder drops a line drive after moving more than a few steps to catch the ball.
j. As a result of an illegal pitch, wild pitch, passed ball or hit batter, even if more than one
base is gained from the initial misplay.
k. When a runner advances on a dropped third strike. In such a case, a wild pitch or passed
ball shall be charged; however, if an accurate throw or proper catch would have resulted
in an out, an error shall be charged to the appropriate player.
l. When a pitcher mishandles a sharply batted ball. Wild throws and the mishandling of
routine ground balls and bunts are reason for charging the pitcher with an error.

NFHS Softball

ART. 5 . . . An error is charged against a fielder for each misplay that prolongs the time at bat of the batter; or prolongs the time a player continues to be a runner; or permits the runner to advance one or more bases. If it is impossible to assign an error to an individual player, then the team will be assessed with an error.

 

[FP26]

f. When a ball is hit with such force, so slowly or with erratic spin that it would require
more than ordinary effort to play the ball.

.

This is my contention right here. "If it requires more than ordinary effort". The plays I am talking about are nothing more than ordinary effort for the average high school varsity player in our area.

 

[MNDad]

This is my contention right here. "If it requires more than ordinary effort". The plays I am talking about are nothing more than ordinary effort for the average high school varsity player in our area.

NCAA Baseball has some notes using the language “mechanical misplay” to describe an error. While not the letter of the law for softball I think it’s a good definition to distinguish lack of hustle from ordinary effort.

Note 1: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error.
Note 2: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through
a fielder’s legs or a pop fly falls untouched and, in the scorer’s judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball
with ordinary effort, an error should be charged.
Note 3: Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules.

 

[FP26]

NCAA Baseball has some notes using the language “mechanical misplay” to describe an error. While not the letter of the law for softball I think it’s a good definition to distinguish lack of hustle from ordinary effort.

Note 1: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error.
Note 2: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through
a fielder’s legs or a pop fly falls untouched and, in the scorer’s judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball
with ordinary effort, an error should be charged.
Note 3: Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules.

Our biggest challenge is that most of our high school players simply don't understand the game or how to play it. The roster includes 17 players, but DD is the only one that plays travel ball. "Hustle" isn't really the problem. It's more that they don't understand. Players don't tag when they are supposed to... They don't run when there are two outs unless instructed to do so by the coaches... You name it. Yeah, the coaching isn't the greatest either, but they really don't have much to work with. They are great kids, and I think they really do try, but you can tell they are in over their heads. If confusion or lack of understanding is characterized as a "mental mistake", then I guess our team should never be charged an error

Sorry for derailing the thread...

 

[Sparky Guy]

Our biggest challenge is that most of our high school players simply don't understand the game or how to play it. The roster includes 17 players, but DD is the only one that plays travel ball. "Hustle" isn't really the problem. It's more that they don't understand. Players don't tag when they are supposed to... They don't run when there are two outs unless instructed to do so by the coaches... You name it. Yeah, the coaching isn't the greatest either, but they really don't have much to work with. They are great kids, and I think they really do try, but you can tell they are in over their heads. If confusion or lack of understanding is characterized as a "mental mistake", then I guess our team should never be charged an error

Sorry for derailing the thread...

Not to be snarky, but that's why college coaches give very little credence to HS stats. There are too many teams out there who play how you describe your DD's HS team.

 

[Westwind]

Not to be snarky, but that's why college coaches give very little credence to HS stats. There are too many teams out there who play how you describe your DD's HS team.

Sparkyguy, the whole point of this thread was to have some snarky fun! Eat, drink and be snarky, lol!

 

[FP26]

Not to be snarky, but that's why college coaches give very little credence to HS stats. There are too many teams out there who play how you describe your DD's HS team.

This is a good point. One of the colleges DD was considering actually brought this up. DD explained the lack of experience that the team had. The coach came to watch a game and chatted with her afterwards. She stated that she was impressed with DD's composure and leadership and eventually offered her a spot for next year. Unfortunately DD has decided to go to a different college.

 

[Il softball fan]

""" It's more that they don't understand. Players don't tag when they are supposed to... They don't run when there are two outs unless instructed to do so by the coaches... You name it. Yeah, the coaching isn't the greatest either, but they really don't have much to work with. They are great kids, and I think they really do try, but you can tell they are in over their heads. If confusion or lack of understanding is characterized as a "mental mistake", then I guess our team should never be charged an error """

You just described DDs high school team to a T. Its like the coaches have secrets that they don't want to share with the team or something. We had girls on base last night in two different innings with two outs, and all of us parents were like..this would be a great time to remind the girls to run on a hit ball. Coaches stand there and say nothing. Not a word.

 

[CoreSoftball20]

I think with how much interpretation can be used when applying the "with ordinary effort" rule...that's the main reason unless its touched, its not an error most
of the time. Of course, unless it went thru the legs or something. A pitcher's parents may thing ordinary effort is diff than a fielder's parents ordinary effort.