Roll Over Drop/Drop Curve

Rick Pauly · Nov 15, 2013

RT
I think the double ball is a great spin tool...especially for the rise and palm up curve. It really forces you to get the correct spin axis. See pic below of double ball. PS...posted a spin demo video on the thread about riseball spin if you want to see how I use it.

Rocketech1 said:
Sounds like great advice, get them spinning the ball backwards as young as possible even if they won't be using the full mechanics for some time. With that said, I have seen 10 & 11YOs throw a "rise ball" and while they mostly have side-spin or 4/10 spin and don't "rise", they can still be effective at the 10U & 12U level since batters at this age have a hard time hitting a ball high in the strike zone. The conventional wisdom is not to throw a rise ball until you are 13 or 14 and are throwing 50+, but I can see some benefits to learning the pitch a little earlier since its the hardest pitch to learn and throw consistently.

Anyone have any experience with using the two ball device to help achieve good, consistent backspin? Hillhouse is a big proponent of this.

FrozenRope · Nov 15, 2013

starsnuffer said:
Adjusting the step length for the drop is a band-aid applied to a symptom, it isn't an absolute and it isn't a solution. It sounds like you figured out that a drop ball is much more useful then a drop curve.

-W

Star, I see PC thanked you on this post....so I assume he read your mind and know's what you mean, so I'll ask you both...When you say this is a Band Aid, I see that as a negative... a temporary fix to an unrelated problem. Please explain the corerct fix or at least tell me what the problem is? And yes... I posted a while back in this thread that if this becomes a drop... and only a drop..I'm happy.

starsnuffer · Nov 16, 2013

Sure. Think about what happens when the stride is shortened. The entire body is rotated forward, say from \ to |

In doing so, the release point moves downward from -- to \ . This is when you get the "drop ball" that is really a fastball aimed towards the ground. This can help pitchers get "on top of" the ball to generate the correct spin before/at the time of release.

What you really want to have happen is the spin to be generated a bit sooner and the release happen a bit sooner, so that the pitcher has the same mechanics but the correct pitch and trajectory. This is hard, and it's much easier to simply tell the pitcher to step shorter.

Having a shorter stride also puts the body more upright, and moves the release point higher off the ground. This adds to the illusion of movement (smoke and mirrors) as it appears that the ball moves more because point A is now a few inches higher then it would otherwise be. It's the same as stepping inside for a curve and outside for a screw.

This works great at young ages, but at higher levels, even in HS now, we're teaching batters to watch the stride foot to determine pitch location. Ultimately the pitcher will be more successful if all their delivers appear the same.

-W

FrozenRope · Nov 16, 2013

starsnuffer said:
Sure. Think about what happens when the stride is shortened. The entire body is rotated forward, say from \ to |

In doing so, the release point moves downward from -- to \ . This is when you get the "drop ball" that is really a fastball aimed towards the ground. This can help pitchers get "on top of" the ball to generate the correct spin before/at the time of release.

What you really want to have happen is the spin to be generated a bit sooner and the release happen a bit sooner, so that the pitcher has the same mechanics but the correct pitch and trajectory. This is hard, and it's much easier to simply tell the pitcher to step shorter.

Having a shorter stride also puts the body more upright, and moves the release point higher off the ground. This adds to the illusion of movement (smoke and mirrors) as it appears that the ball moves more because point A is now a few inches higher then it would otherwise be. It's the same as stepping inside for a curve and outside for a screw.

This works great at young ages, but at higher levels, even in HS now, we're teaching batters to watch the stride foot to determine pitch location. Ultimately the pitcher will be more successful if all their delivers appear the same.

-W

Confused now... The corrective tweak was to lengthen the stride a bit...not shorten it. She has been throwing that pitch with her typical FB stride. The coach had her stride a tad further because with her normal stride she would close everything too hard and pull the ball left out of the strikezone. Slightly lengthening the stride prevents her from closing too early. She was throwing it today and she's still about 2-3 mph off her fastball speed, but her revs are up a bit as well 15-16. Rotation is between 6-12 and 5-11.

Rick Pauly · Nov 16, 2013

Hey FR
Curious what her FB spin rates are? What does her FB movement look like when she throws it low in the zone? And of course is her FB spin 12/6? Might be the alternative you are looking for.

starsnuffer · Nov 16, 2013

Sounds like lengthening her stride would be a good thing for every pitch then, not just her drop. It's very very common that we have to lengthen the stride, kids forget that they grow. Adjusting the grip and stride length are continuing processes as they grow.

-W

Ken B · Apr 7, 2018

Bump.......

STRIKE3 · Apr 7, 2018

Ken B said:
Bump.......

Good bump Ken and timely for me. Actually ordered the Club K Spin Right Spinner which will be arriving today. We have used taped softballs for years but I think the visual for my pitchers as well myself with the spinner may help. Of course, I researched peoples experience with it here on DFP before I pulled the trigger and I am hoping it will be a good tool in the toolbox as well as change things up a bit during practice.

I will report back in a few weeks.

S3

Ken B · Apr 7, 2018

Looking forward to hearing your take on the spinner. I think it can be a tool in the box, but limits grips and release feels.

STRIKE3 · Mar 19, 2022

Ken B said:
Looking forward to hearing your take on the spinner. I think it can be a tool in the box, but limits grips and release feels.

Well....... it has been long past "a few weeks" but did want to finally report back on this tool. Many ideas on it in DFP for sure and probably a 50/50 good or not good review.

That said, over the last couple of years, I haven't necessarily used the "spinner" for spins but more for finger snap. Getting the fingers to get engaged. Yes, you can do that with a striped ball too no doubt but sometimes this tool is more helpful to those to get the feel of the fingers doing the work at the end IMHO.

I think they should change the name to the "Finger Snap Puck" as it might be more useful if that was the intention. You are forced to get the fingers involved IMHO with this tool where you might not be with a ball and can just let the hand/wrist/IR do the work.

Probably not explaining this very well but the "spinner" commands a finger presence and use IMHO. Obviously you need the fingers to spin the ball but some girls struggle a bit early on with that if you just say spin it and try to explain it. This seems to force them to use the fingers and the spin comes with it of course. Again, probabaly not the best explanation but it has proven to be a useful tool for me.

Just my two cents.

S3

Roll Over Drop/Drop Curve

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