Windmill - Arm position at 3/4 down position

[bwalk63]

So what is being said exactly? are we saying that the glove has to fly out for IR? That maybe since the best fly out that maybe that is a good thing?Frankly it is very hard to find a video of pitchers NOT flying out. Cat and Ueno are the only 2 I know of who don't fly out. Would love to hear what Bill has to say, maybe it is a no teach or correct.

By the way......This brings up ONE MORE GOOD POINT.........

The next time you "key in" on making sure the glove and front shoulder isn't "waving out" from the power line.........You may want to rethink what you doing to the pitchers "whip" mechanics..........

Funny........no one ever said anything to Bill about his glove "waving" out from the powerline........

 

[starsnuffer]

So what is being said exactly? are we saying that the glove has to fly out for IR? That maybe since the best fly out that maybe that is a good thing?Frankly it is very hard to find a video of pitchers NOT flying out. Cat and Ueno are the only 2 I know of who don't fly out. Would love to hear what Bill has to say, maybe it is a no teach or correct.

It's a good question, I'd like to hear their answers.

From a physics standpoint, it seems that something would have to counterbalance the fact that the ball has to be outside the body and it's impossible to pitch "through" ones own body. I can see a foot (mule kick, figure four) performing this counter balance, I can also see the glove side hip (pitcher leaning to one side) or the glove doing it. I'm not sure what else.

Cat uses her right butt-cheek (I don't think I'm kidding) for balance.

-W

 

[BoardMember]

So what is being said exactly? are we saying that the glove has to fly out for IR?

That's not really what I said.........What I said was "keying in" on unnecessarily correcting the glove hand waving off the power line may not be the best thing for whip mechanics.........

I see pitching coaches do this all the time............And have heard SEVERAL comments on this board from well intentioned instructors telling pitchers/parents/coaches they have to get that front side "wave out" corrected in order for proper mechanics/balance to occur........This is simply wrong........And to me is much like an umpire "inserting himself" in a game where he doesn't have to......

Bottom line is the "reverse circle" of the lead arm, which creates kinetic counter balance/stretch can take many different paths........From wide to narrow........From flatter to more vertical.........

That maybe since the best fly out that maybe that is a good thing?Frankly it is very hard to find a video of pitchers NOT flying out. Cat and Ueno are the only 2 I know of who don't fly out. Would love to hear what Bill has to say, maybe it is a no teach or correct.

This point is it isn't/shouldn't be an "UNTEACH"...........

Lisa Fernandez (like Cat) uses a fairly narrow "reverse circle" for her kinetic counter balance/stretch........

Michele Smith is a "waver", with a wider move...........So is Hollowell.........

And even Mr. Skinner is a bit of a "waver" for that matter.........

And watch his rear shoulder suddenly appear as it "realigns" the complex during the I/R motion.......

The front/rear shoulders open/stretch somewhat in order for the associated contractions to be MOST efficient/effective in the whipping motion...........

I guess my whole point is that IF our members better understand WHY the "reverse circle" is important, not to just to counter balance......but to create stretch in the sequence.......And that reverse circle of the front arm/shoulder takes on MANY DIFFERENT forms..........They might not "coach away" stuff that needs to happen to create velocity in the windmill motion.........

When I see kids that struggle to create velocity.........I often look to see if they are just rotating the entire "complex" (slow/cumbersome).......Or maybe just not using the shoulders at all.........And by that I DON'T mean "complex rotation"...........I mean opening and closing WITHOUT necessarily "rotating"..........

Or properly creating the independent but sync'd stretch/contraction sequence that delivers power/velocity down the power line........Which INCLUDES some form of front side reverse circle........Wide....Narrow.....Flat....Vertical.......Or otherwise...........

 

[CoachFP]

You are using a lower level pitcher like Hal Skinner to prove a point. What is that about?

 

[BoardMember]

You are using a lower level pitcher like Hal Skinner to prove a point. What is that about?

Ya.......I know.......But I don't have any film of you.......So I figured any 'ol thumber would do............

 

[ifubuildit]

I don't stress brushing the hip, but I do tell my students that my hand is so close to my shorts, that if there is a cell phone in my pocket, I have to move it. So, she and I are pretty much on the same page.

Amy have you checked out the "Perfect Circle" Training device? It IMO is one of the best things you can do to help your students keep there hand tight to the body. I have used it for many years and it works. Just dont follow the instructions as they are not good. When you put it on dont put it no the side of the leg and the directions state. Put it on the front of the leg at the release point. Then make them hit it.

 

[ifubuildit]

Lag is actually created from keeping the ball as close to the angular momentum plane as possible.......

What you'll notice in MOST high level pitchers is...........The rear shoulder is "realigning" with the front shoulder from 3:00 to 6:00 during the I/R motion..........This move appears as "shoulder rotation".........but is really just realignment of the pieces........."Coming back together" so to speak........Or back to "neutral" where they WANTED to be in the first place..........

If you look at these clips........You'll see very little shoulder rotation (as a complete complex).....From the 12:00 to 3:00...........and more of an "opening" of the shoulders independent of each other..........

I think any "good coach" would tell you NOT to close your shoulders from 12 to 3..........

The simple fact is these pitchers can "choose" what ball position they want at 3:00.....Facing down.......Facing third.......Or Facing up.........and they are "biomechanically smart enough" to know that palm up creates the BEST position to whip from.......Even if they don't PHYSICALLY know this is what they're doing........

Because they HAVE NOT been taught to "wipe the wall/chalkboard" with the ball.........or to PUSH THE BALL down the circle and pull it up...........

This is what Bill meant when he said you can COACH the natural move OUT of good mechanics if you want to...........And THOUSANDS of PC's do exactly that..........

Again.......IMO.........The best drills a young pitcher can do are to rock it up to 3:00, palm to the sky..........and "bust it off".............and THEN "Show it and Throw it".......Once they learn the "lag position" they WANT to be at from 3:00.........Which IS NOT ball/palm to 3rd base........

I have taken a lot of video of my students pitching and I see what Board talks about in them most of the time. If I dont then we start the correction process. If you just let them do what is natural most of the time it will happen on its own. What I have left in Boards post here are what I would hope every instructor would understand about pitching mechanics. As he stated many do not. Especially the statement about the rear shoulder realignment. Far to many young pitchers get way to active with their hips and shoulders going from 3-6. Most instructor's teach them that way. Then you play H**L trying to get them into the right position at release. In some cases it has taken as long as a year to change the muscle memory. Even more so when you deal with a child who has a learning disability such as ADD or ADHD. They are very hard to change and keep changed once that muscle memory has developed. You have to slow them down to get them to change and if you know anything about these kinds of kids they dont want to slow down for anything they do when it comes to athletics. They just want to throw the snot out of the ball. Which is good too but it still has to be with the right mechanics.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

ifubuildit, Yes. But, I make my own. They are greatly over priced.

 

[ifubuildit]

What you mean you can Sew? OMG!!!!! There is a chance that art will not be lost. Your right about the price. The other thing I am hearing is that the gentleman who had that device may have passed. That is just rumor. Has not been confirmed by me so dont hold me to it.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Sew? I am not dragging out the sewing machine for that. I tried using a strap and fastener clips from Ace, but the strap slides down. So, it does need to have some elastic. You can use duct tape as the thing that your hand hits.

I call this Amy's Flip at the Hip.