Windmill - Arm position at 3/4 down position

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Here is a picture of Kenzie Fowler, demonstrating the 12 o'clock position.

[/URL][/IMG]

Great find Amy! Would be interested in the other experts take on this hand position. This is a "battle" I have with my DD's PC. When DD and I do the drill at home I have her point the ball towards me "show it and throw it". Whenever DD works with PC, she always has Kenzie's ball position above, but maybe even more pointed to 2B. Maybe our PC knows what she is doing?

 

[tomzpc]

Here is a picture of Kenzie Fowler, demonstrating the 12 o'clock position.

[/URL][/IMG]

Kenzie's awesome. I enjoyed watching her in the CWS.

 

[drc9805]

I think that you are doing the correct thing. Always work with a power line and have it go about 3 feet passed them. The ball stays outside their body, but does not disappear behind their shoulder. They should almost brush against their hip, on release.

During the complete circle, the ball stays above the power line, so that if they drop it, it would hit the line.

Tell them to imagine drawing a huge circle on a white board and the ball is the marker.

Put them up to the fence, facing it and maybe 10 inches away from it. Have them pitch from there, just using the arm circle.

As far as the ball "lassoing over their head", start them with the ball at 12 o'clock.. I call it the statue of liberty. Thumb is rotated away from their body. The ball is then as high as it can be, without actually locking the elbow.

Amy,

My dd pitching coach stresses brushing the hip. She actually wants your forearm to be red after pitching. I notice most coaches want the arm to be close to the hip when it comes through but they don't stress the brushing. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[tomzpc]

What's interesting though is that I just did a quick search and came across these images of Kenzie in action and she seems to be holding the ball in a different position than she is in the demonstration photo that Amy posted. She doesn't appear to turn the wrist at this position as much as the demonstration photo would indicate.

 

[tomzpc]

Back to the original thread topic, here's one of Kenzie at almost 3/4. The ball seems to be mostly facing third with a slight upturn.

Here's another, again not quite at 3/4:

Note how at this point in her arm circle she still hasn't turned her wrist as much as she is in the demonstration photo at 12:00.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Back to the original thread topic, here's one of Kenzie at almost 3/4. The ball seems to be mostly facing third with a slight upturn.

Here's another, again not quite at 3/4:

Note how at this point in her arm circle she still hasn't turned her wrist as much as she is in the demonstration photo at 12:00.

There is a thread from a few months ago where Boardmember argues "palm to the sky" at 3:00 (or 3/4 of the way down as quincy posts). I disagreed with him (BM) that I have not seen an elite pitcher fully palm to the sky at 3:00. If someone has a good quality photo I would be interested in seeing it. I think kenzie's ball position is where most elite pitchers are at 3:00. IMO, thumb is pointed towards the 3B side.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I don't stress brushing the hip, but I do tell my students that my hand is so close to my shorts, that if there is a cell phone in my pocket, I have to move it. So, she and I are pretty much on the same page.

 

[drc9805]

I don't stress brushing the hip, but I do tell my students that my hand is so close to my shorts, that if there is a cell phone in my pocket, I have to move it. So, she and I are pretty much on the same page.

Thanks! I forgot to mention she does teach the leap and drag staying open. By your reply, it sounds like that is what you teach as well. I think she wants the hip to be used as a point of reference and I believe another reason is because your wrist will snap a lot harder by brushing the hip since the forearm will have some resistance. She doesn't want you to stop at that point though...she wants your arm to follow through.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I use the term "flip at the hip." The girls seem to like that.

 

[BoardMember]

There is a thread from a few months ago where Boardmember argues "palm to the sky" at 3:00 (or 3/4 of the way down as quincy posts). I disagreed with him (BM) that I have not seen an elite pitcher fully palm to the sky at 3:00. If someone has a good quality photo I would be interested in seeing it. I think kenzie's ball position is where most elite pitchers are at 3:00. IMO, thumb is pointed towards the 3B side.

I remember that thread.........It was a thread were I explained the purpose of creating "lag" to facilitate whip.......

I posted several examples that you claimed were to "Grainy" to verify.........I remember asking you to view the original clip of Finch in quicktime and tell me what you saw at 3:00 (report back).......You accused me of copping an attitude........When I was only trying to help people understand the importance of creating lag.......I see you're still denying it.........And you have that right of course........

This was your quote:

what I am seeing is the palm starts facing 3rd base from the top of the arm circle (12 o'clock) and pretty much stays there until just prior to 6 o'clock

I was trying to explain to you AND the board that as the arm/hand/ball transitions from 12:00 to 3:00 that ball is working to face the sky...........Palm up...........As a matter of bio-mechanics for creating whip from lag............

So.........One more time.........For those truely interested in high level pitching mechanics.......

Keeping in mind that you can only see what you want to see..........

Hillhouse going from palm to 3rd.......to palm to the sky at 3:00..........

Alicia Hollowell going palm up..........

Sarah Pauly Palm to the sky at 3:00.........I believe after I posted Sarah Pauly in this position........"SoftballDad" stopped posting in that thread..........And now he's here claiming he's never seen an elite pitcher "palm to the sky" again...........Frankly, I just don't get it..........

And last but not least...........Cat Osterman going Palm to the sky........And maintaining lag until release........

Again........Without any attitude..........You can ONLY see what you WANT to see.........

How many of these "elite" pitchers are "wiping the chalk board with the ball" on the way down the circle.........And how many of them do this........

what I am seeing is the palm starts facing 3rd base from the top of the arm circle (12 o'clock) and pretty much stays there until just prior to 6 o'clock

I would say exactly........ZERO..........

Creating LAG........Going Palm UP (slightly more or less) is essential to creating the HIGHEST LEVEL mechanics........

In the first still of Fowler at ALMOST but NOT QUITE 3:00 Tom posted above.......(which I can't include because of the picture limit on this board).....She is transitioning from Palm to 3rd.......To Palm Up...........Creating LAG..........In the second picture he posted she is NOT at 3:00.........And the ball is more toward 3rd..........

If you use some imagination..........Call the second picture the FIRST frame........And the first picture the SECOND frame........And you will understand why the ball is facing MORE toward third then MORE toward the sky are she reaches ALMOST 3:00.........

Sorry for the interuption of the thread.........But good and "verifiable" information is important..........

Carry on with how the palm/ball faces "more toward 3rd" at 3:00.............

There's a reason I don't teach it that way...........Everyone's different.........And so is the level of pitchers being produced.........