Rotational Hitting

[Slapper23]

Pops,

I started with Epstein, drifted away while investigating and using other's viewpoints, including working Englishbey's stuff HARD. I think Yeager is a great resource, but as the late Swingbuster (Donny Buster) used to say, "you eventually come back to Epstein." I find myself there, but with modifications. What I like best about his stuff are his Numbers and Torque drills. Is it perfect? NO, but no guru's stuff is, IMO.

Epstein doesn't get anywhere near as scientific or as in detail of movement, musculature, nervous system, etc., etc., as Englishbey. While I think Englishbey is flawed, you should check it out for yourself. Best to make your own mind up on this stuff than let others tell you what to do. The more you educate yourself, the better off your daughter's progress will be. Heck, I'm excited for you!

Mike

 

[Pops]

Thanks

Thanks Mike,

I appreciated your input. I'm getting excited too. I've looked around the web at everyones suggestions and have been learning a lot. I've been impressed with all the knowledge that is available. I like the before and after video on the Epstein site as well as the progress that has been demonstrated by the participants there.

This will just be one step in an ongoing process. But I think it will be a big one that can be built upon in the future.

Pops

 

[TeamPosey13]

I usually do not reply to these message boards, however I have been reading several of the comments about the techniques of hitting and I must say that some of the stuff out there is way off! As an Olympic Athlete in softball, I can assure you that spinning your hips to hit the ball is the WORST thing you can do at the higer levels. At the lower levels, you may be able to get away with it. However, at the higher levels, there is NO WAY to hit with maximum power when you "torque" your hips. I agree with what Dr. Hit was saying (about walking). If your body works a certain way in one sport... it will work the same way in another sport. Hitting is pretty similar to tennis and throwing side arm. You do not teach people to spin your hips to hit a tennis ball or throw a ball? Also, when you spin your hips, it forces your weight to go backwards. When your weight is going backwards and a softball or baseball is coming at you 68-90 MPH, there is no way you can hit the ball with maximum force. It is physically impossible. I do not mean to be harsh, but in fastpitch softball our swings have to be pretty efficient to hit at the higher levels... much more so than baseball bc we (women) do not have the upper body strength that men do. I have talked to major league baseball players and Olympic softball players about hitting and I can assure you that none of them who actually knows what their body does will tell you that the hips lead the way. The best hitting instructor out there who works with both baseball and softball players at the higher levels is Mark Doran out of Mokena, IL. I believe he was taught by Rod Carew and worked with Alex Rodriguez and other major leaguers.

 

[barneysdad]

What is meant by reverse pivoting?

Thank you for that web site it confirms what I thought a reverse pivot swing.You had better have your daughter buy some of Barry's special cream,or was it clear?

 

[Hit Dr.24]

Reverse pivot means a rotational moving one piece swing where the body swings the bat draging it around creating reverse body movement,body falling backwards.

 

[Slapper23]

Posey,

Obviously, I have a great deal fo respect for your talent if you are/were a softball Olympian. That said, look at any slo-mo video of ML or high level D1 softball hitters and you WILL SEE hips leading the way. It's kind of incredulous to me that you are saying what you're saying. I guess it shouldn't be though.

We're not torquing the hips or spinning the hips, but while the hands/arms/upper torso loads, hips lead the way. If anything, the core is being torqued as a result creating stretch reflex. Yes, when you throw a ball, hips lead the way. Check it out or better yet, go outside and throw a ball and see for yourself. Hitting is a lot similar to throwing and hitting a golf ball.

AND, because women do not have the upper body strength of men, it is that more important that they do use their CORE to help generate power. Are you talking about arm swings?

Mark and I disagree on some points of the swing, but on the overall, big picture things we are in agreement. Mark, I may need your help here.

Mike

 

[Mark H]

Hi Mark H,

I checked out Englishbey's website and like what I saw. The video of his swing is great. Although the forum doesn't seem to be too active or up to date. I'm going to be surfing over to Rightview and Yeager after this. You referenced Scott and I know I saw that post I just don't know where. Can you give me his contact info?

Thanks,

Pops

Did you register for access on the forum? It's quite active. You can find Scott over there under the name Ssarge.

 

[Mark H]

I usually do not reply to these message boards, however I have been reading several of the comments about the techniques of hitting and I must say that some of the stuff out there is way off! As an Olympic Athlete in softball, I can assure you that spinning your hips to hit the ball is the WORST thing you can do at the higer levels. At the lower levels, you may be able to get away with it. However, at the higher levels, there is NO WAY to hit with maximum power when you "torque" your hips. I agree with what Dr. Hit was saying (about walking). If your body works a certain way in one sport... it will work the same way in another sport. Hitting is pretty similar to tennis and throwing side arm. You do not teach people to spin your hips to hit a tennis ball or throw a ball? Also, when you spin your hips, it forces your weight to go backwards. When your weight is going backwards and a softball or baseball is coming at you 68-90 MPH, there is no way you can hit the ball with maximum force. It is physically impossible. I do not mean to be harsh, but in fastpitch softball our swings have to be pretty efficient to hit at the higher levels... much more so than baseball bc we (women) do not have the upper body strength that men do. I have talked to major league baseball players and Olympic softball players about hitting and I can assure you that none of them who actually knows what their body does will tell you that the hips lead the way. The best hitting instructor out there who works with both baseball and softball players at the higher levels is Mark Doran out of Mokena, IL. I believe he was taught by Rod Carew and worked with Alex Rodriguez and other major leaguers.

I agree hip rotation should not take your weight backward as Epstein suggests and in fact teaches with his drills. OTOH, it's not arguable looking at video of elite hitters that the hips open first. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/olympic

By the way, which Olympic athlete are you?

 

[Hit Dr.24]

Slapper23 MikeH has some very good advice STOP using stuff that Epstein has made up, your core and shoulders load together with your legs. As your stride foot walks away from your body your weight and your hands stay back .Upon toe touch the back foot, knee and hip begin to unload with the hands staying back in a true scapular loaded position, this is the beginning of true connected rotation. Once the legs and hips decelerate to the angle of contact point the core muscles that have been stretched along with the tricep of the front arm contract driving the hands towards the plane of the ball. Then the shoulders begin to decelerate and the lead arm and back arm whip the bat through the contact zone in what Nyman calls a fish hook shaped bat path. With all of this culminating in a full release of the body thus ending the kinetic whip of the swing. I'd bet the hips slowing down is really a crazy concept?

 

[Slapper23]

Doc,

your core and shoulders load together with your legs.

Sure, in a vertical loading sort of thing, I agree with you.

As your stride foot walks away from your body your weight and your hands stay back

Riding the back leg would seem more appropriate to me.

Upon toe touch the back foot, knee and hip begin to unload with the hands staying back in a true scapular loaded position,

If you are waiting until toe touch to rotate, you'll be late to the party. IOW, you don't shift weight forward, then rotate. Have you heard of the concept of "forward by turning?" I'm beginning to wonder. I'm with you on the scap loading part.

Once the legs and hips decelerate to the angle of contact point the core muscles that have been stretched along with the tricep of the front arm contract driving the hands towards the plane of the ball.

If you're talking about "stretch reflex" or X-factor stretch, I'm with you.

I don't know why you make an innane comment about the hips slowing down, as if you just scored some kind of point. Of course the hips decelerate at contact...but they do lead the way, DOC.

You seem to be mixing swing truisms with fallacy. You're probably all for the fish shaped hook resulting in a back slapping follow through, too...right?

Mike