Weight Transfer

[Wellphyt]

aim-

I think a missing ingredient here as first proposed by Dixon (Jim) is that "dynamic balance" and weight shift require a mode of functioning associated with a certain type of muscle tone/"posture" Dixon called "torso activation". The torso then can trigger/initiate patterns and sequences with movement/shift of the center of gravity which the limbs respond to.

Tom-

I've been reading through some of Dixion's material and I like the concept of the limbs responding to the torso when it comes to weight shift.

I find it difficult to determine cause and effect at the point in the swing where the coil reverses to uncoil because I'm on autopilot at that point. However based on the many swings I've taken, I think an argument can be made that the pressure felt at the rear foot prior to the back knee turning in, could very well be the back foot absorbing the sudden force created when the hips reverse. IOW, the back foot is supporting the hips as the coil reverses to uncoil. The sensation at the back foot at this point in the swing that many describe as the back foot pushing off against the ground, is probably the back foot pushing back against the force directed it's way by the hips/torso during the coil reversal. IMO this is a significant difference and changes how one would go about teaching weight shift.

I'm focusing my efforts upstream of eversion and the down and in turn of the back knee; as I now believe that those actions are an effect of a proper weight shift done by the hips/torso/core. If I can teach an action upstream that leads to eversion and the back knee turning down and in, then IMO that is the better way to go. This is similar to how many coaches teach the girls to throw from the "L" position, when in fact the "L" position is not the critical action in the throw. As Hodge says, if you think there is something important going on at that point in the throwing motion, you are too late. The important action happens before the arm gets to the "L" position.

 

[cshilt]

I was cleaning out my e-mail inbox and stumbled onto an e-mail from Epstein. Here is an excerpt that relates to the drill you see the student doing in the clip above.

Those pics were not taken when the player was statically placed there. The pictures were taken on paused clips of a swing in motion. Regardless, the player is encouraged to have the front leg locked out and the back heal is rotating externally with the ball of the foot as the pivot.

As an owner of the On-Target Fastpitch series of drills (all 3 of them), I do not recommend them.

 

[tom.guerry]

aim -

I like the Dixon torso activation and pattern concepts. Jim/dad initially tried to describe sequential phases (shift to travel/shift to explode/explode) but was unsuccessful with this and went on a search that ended up with a quasi-religious "natural approach" of unlearning/recapturing youthful patterns. I think this is bogus.

I think mechanics are best taught/lerning accelerated as flowing through certain positions in a certain sequence that is best understand as upper and lower engines and how they synch.

You have to get the pattern attributes right or close enough for nature to take over (all are born with a consistent set of potentials/attractors for certain patterns, not as a blank slate) and avoid deal killers. Dixon never understood the rubberbandwinding phase which kills the HLBB pattern when omitted.

I think the throw pattern has to be learned first, then the swing pattern. The Hodge info is excellent at learning pattern/synch for throw. The spine engine concept is good for learning how this is modified for the swing.

The HLBB (MLB) pattern needs to be optimized for "early batspeed" which requires the hand pivot/handle torque in the upper body and a rear hip pivot where the rear leg turns ahead of the rear hip, remaining fused as the rear hip turns forward by upper body resistance keeping the hip back (hip as bottom of top, not top of bottom).

This gives more reaction time for better recognition and enables plane matching as described by Williams and Epstein.

The rear knee "hinging" that Epstein describes is the rear leg turning ahead of the back hip.

The rear foot is in a reactive/supportive role with the primary action being the tug of war between the rear hip and leg at the hip joint as the rear foot bears weight.

You want to understand this is how you need to use the lower body in the throw and develop it there, the use it in the swing with the upper body hand pivot controlling by resistance.

 

[Shawn]

Wellphyt, Tom,

The Dixon stuff is like what came first the chicken or the egg. An exercise would be to perform a squat with awareness of the torso (mass) lowering and the legs responding. It doesn't need to be confusing, it's just an awareness thing of the glass is half empty or half full depending on how you look at it, do the legs work first or the torso?

In good instructions in exercises I see the use of such cues of torso awareness. And it should be through exercises and swing training/drills that this awareness is developed.

The physical intelligence of a ML hitter is beyond the scope of a single post or statement and beyond what most young hitters can understand or perform.

 

[Wellphyt]

Those pics were not taken when the player was statically placed there. The pictures were taken on paused clips of a swing in motion. Regardless, the player is encouraged to have the front leg locked out and the back heal is rotating externally with the ball of the foot as the pivot.

As an owner of the On-Target Fastpitch series of drills (all 3 of them), I do not recommend them.

All of the "On-Target" drills are all done from static positions. The "Torque Drill" is done standing in place. The "Numbers Drill" is done as follows:
Position one: toe touch
Position two: Heel plant
Position three: Swing

These positions can be combined in different ways, as in "Position 1 - Position 3" where the player goes to toe touch, pauses, and then swings, passing through the Number 2 position. The 1 -3 variation is the most performed drill done within the "Numbers Drill".

The 1-3 variation is still a static drill because the player pauses at toe touch. You can't really do a correct weight shift when the player pauses at toe touch.

IMO, if people choose to purchase his dvds, they should probably sign up for the online tutorials. I wish that option was around when I purchased my dvds.

Yesterday I spent some one-on-one time with one of our new players. She's 13. She has a hands-to-the-ball downward swing and lunges really bad (but she can pitch). I spent 10 minutes showing her the "Torque Drill" and then walked her through the "Numbers Drill" for 10 minutes. When we did the 1-3 variation in the "Numbers Drill" the lunging went away. Obviously 20 minutes isn't enough to change the swing of a 13yo player that has been swinging a certain way since tee-ball. However my experience with Epstein's drills is that if they are performed correctly over a consecutive 10 to 14 day stretch, they will rid any player of lunging, they will teach a tight hand path, they will teach hips before hands, and they will teach the player how to get on plane of the pitch.

IMO, they don't do a good job of teaching weight transfer, which is perhaps what cshilt is eluding to. However if you know that going in, you can blend weight shift movements into his drills fairly easily.

 

[cshilt]

IMO, they don't do a good job of teaching weight transfer, which is perhaps what cshilt is eluding to. However if you know that going in, you can blend weight shift movements into his drills fairly easily.

I think that is fair to say. IMO, for the target audience, the way that weight transfer is taught in these videos can do more harm than good. For those who look to these videos without an understanding of a proper lateral weight shift might think that leaning back is desired and external rotation of the rear heel is ok. I know I've seen those swings put into practice, and while some can overcome it, those who do not research and look for more answers do not advance past a certain competition level.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Chris next time you go down to SWOBAT's go early and watch the baseball trainers in action. You will see exactly what you posted above. That is what happens when somone is self taught from a video without proper understanding of what they are watching. Squish bug and weight back are both being taught. They have posted that they are Epstein trained. They actully use the cue squish the bug.. I guess this goes to show us that just because you played MLB, doesn't mean you can teach hitting.

 

[Wellphyt]

I think that is fair to say. IMO, for the target audience, the way that weight transfer is taught in these videos can do more harm than good. For those who look to these videos without an understanding of a proper lateral weight shift might think that leaning back is desired and external rotation of the rear heel is ok. I know I've seen those swings put into practice, and while some can overcome it, those who do not research and look for more answers do not advance past a certain competition level.

Here is another excerpt from one of Esptein's e-mails that I received last year.

"It is also important to understand that, when teaching a player from scratch, you need a building-block aproach or a foundation to follow. Therefore, the hitter will need to learn the basics (Torque and Numbers Drill) before implementing aspects such as a stride or personal style. We typically build in a stride/weight shift after the player can demonstrate proficiency with the three core movements (hips lead hands, match swing plane to pitch plane,and stay inside the ball). Depending on the hitter this may take up to three weeks. Another key is not to rush through these foundational movements. They're that important." – Mike Epstein

When I bought my "On-Target" dvds I assumed they were all inclusive, which in hindsight was probably naive on my part. Based on this e-mail I think it's safe to say that my "On-Target" dvds are not all inclusive. IMO, the dvds are still worth the money without the info on weight shift, and I believe my daughter benefited a lot from my "On-Target" dvds. I just wish I knew six years ago, what I know now.

No one was more surprised than me to read on page 45 of "SOH", that the most important move of the hitter is the "hip cock". How that little tid bit of information got left out of my dvds puzzles me to no end. IMO, the odds of the typical parent figuring out how to teach weight shift from my "On-target" dvds is slim to none; and nobody can find "slim". My dvds are six or seven years old, so maybe they have been updated to include the subject of weight shift.

I think Tom G. puts it best when he says that Epstein's material may not be all inclusive, but his material will not prevent you from being able to teach good mechanics. IMO that is not the case with some material, which I've found can seriously get you off track. IOW, IMO, the material included on my "On-Target" dvds is excellent, it's just not all inclusive. When I finally figured out the weight shift (as I understand it), it was really easy to add it onto what I had already taught my daughter using my "On-Target" dvds.

 

[tom.guerry]

well -

windmillers are used to not lunging when they pitch (unlike overhand throw where weight needs to come forward analagous to lunging for a hitter). they usually have very good rear leg and hip action that is developed to synch with the bacward arm swing.

try to focus on them resynching this with the eraly arm action sequence that Hodge describes with the Epstein drills which are primarily developed to prevent lunging and they can make rapid progress.

 

[tom.guerry]

well -

I would also recommend you get and review Jim (sean's dad) Dixon's exceptional player book. He had good success using Lau Sr's hitting info but got obsessed by what was really meant by "weight shift" which then lead to his books figuring out thorw and hit and teaching them together.

he later became disillusioned with the traiditional "mechanical" sequence/flow of positions type approach and moved into "natural learning" carried on by his son Sean.

I still much prefer the traditional mechanical/sequential approach, but you have to get it right and it helps to do whole and part and forward and back and synch type training.

see also:

A Tribute to Jim Dixon