Turning the barrel 6

[Work=wins]

I guess I’m dense because I dont get “pig in a tornado”.

Sorry for late response. RDBass covered it pretty much. It’s basically a loading of the barrel late in the ‘turn’ of the swing to create easy whip. It also hinders ‘pushing’.

 

[mann]

Sorry for late response. RDBass covered it pretty much. It’s basically a loading of the barrel late in the ‘turn’ of the swing to create easy whip. It also hinders ‘pushing’.

WHAT? Why does this sound like my theory?

 

[4 girl's dad]

Sorry for late response. RDBass covered it pretty much. It’s basically a loading of the barrel late in the ‘turn’ of the swing to create easy whip. It also hinders ‘pushing’.

I def get that and can feel it and have been working with my players to feel it! I just dont get the pig in the tornado. LOL Who is the pig and what is the tornado? I am genuinely curious of the analogy.

 

[Work=wins]

I def get that and can feel it and have been working with my players to feel it! I just dont get the pig in the tornado. LOL Who is the pig and what is the tornado? I am genuinely curious of the analogy.

Lol. Board member coined it. The Pig is the barrel. The tornado is the moving body. It’s the first term used for TTB.

 

[FP26]

When your DD is "pitching with her rear hip", does she "fire" it at the target, or is it "fired" by something else?

Sometimes cues get confused with kinesiology...if that's another way of saying it. =)

Well.... While I do believe there are a number of similarities between pitching and hitting, there are also some differences as well. When it comes to firing things during the pitching motion, the whole 'drive mechanics' thing comes into play... While I am enjoying the overall discussion, I'm not sure that is something I want to digest at the moment.

https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/18135-drive-mechanics-2.html#post229912

 

[FP26]

OMG! are you folks having a nice wholesome discussion about hitting, or at least swinging a thing called a bat? Impressive!! I will do my best to NOT distract from any goodness that is happening here.
A few of you are way more eloquent than I and that can often be intimidating, yet My core belief is so strong that I cannot surrender to your words.
Believe me when i say I "understand" what you are saying, AND , when I say that, I mean I understand what you are saying as it relates to "your" beliefs. That doesn't necessarily mean i agree or disagree. It just means I understand what you are saying... and I ask that you try to understand what I am saying as it relates to MY beliefs, not yours.....

Lol!! You have been around long enough that I doubt you are intimidated by any of us... I can't speak for anyone else, but I have always enjoyed your input, and I have personally learned a great deal from your posts. I truly wish more discussion would occur without someone always trying to make it personal.

 

[rdbass]

I def get that and can feel it and have been working with my players to feel it! I just dont get the pig in the tornado. LOL Who is the pig and what is the tornado? I am genuinely curious of the analogy.

This is what I see in the bottom clip.........Chapter is dropping the pig into the tornado (running start) LATER in the sequence.........Because the direction of the barrel (pig) is LOADING INTO (subtracting frames) vs. Launching Into (adding frames)........

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Thank you for the response.

The goal for me is to match what the BEST do.


Weight ‘transfer’to me is the moving out of the weight forward. ‘Shift’ to me is front hip going back, back hip going ‘forward’.

‘Separation’ is the ‘walking away from the hands’ or ‘backside’(Same in my book).

‘Good extension’ is the arms extending towards the pitched ball AT contact or RIGHT before contact.

Yes I can tell from your DD swing that we have different definitions of transfer, shift, separation, and extension. No problem, other than we'll probably never come to agreement unless we spent some time in a cage together somewhere.

Latta teaches to ‘stay through’ to get extension, as do I . It’s the best way to ‘hit in a big zone’ as the pros say. Your hitter turns left , cuts off his swing , loses power(release) and the ability to ‘hit in a big zone’. You say he ‘adjusted’. I say when you reach barrel type instruction , extension will be void in the swing( unless you cast). I tried with the Latta vids . But you didn’t get the hint.

The term ‘square up’ is due to hitting the ball at a 90 degree angle. So no your hitter didn’t square the ball. He lost his angle because of no hand path. He was around the ball. Due to a barrel centric teaching imo. That ball shoulda been 40 ft. over the fence imo( decent size kid ). But your hitter can’t get full release is his swing on top or on the bottom due to ‘70/30’ or 60/40 and uneducated hands( no hand path ).

Wow, a lot of assumptions wrt a lot of things on a swing that you or I weren't present to see, and determine if it was "squared up" or not, and how far it should or shouldn't have gone. You're now kind of getting into some shaky ground of credibility with me when you start saying things that you really have no idea about. You, nor I were there, and all I've going on is what the kid's dad wrote to me years ago, and his amazement with the swing his son put on that pitch, and the carry that ball had, and what he said it hit. Other than that, neither of us have a clue of what the pitch was or exactly where, how far it traveled, or where in the park it went exactly.

When you are so concerned with ‘staying back’ that tells me your concerned with lunging(good guess no?).

No, not at all. I never said any of my hitters lunged, nor did I say Latta or anyone else was "lunging" when they did a 50/50 weight shift stride, I just say their head moves forward too much...which doesn't mean that they have to be "lunging" do to it. You were the one that brought up "lunging"...again making more assumptions on things that I never said, and that just aren't there.

Ted said your head moves ‘a little’. Your hitters head doesn’t move at all. But really the case should be made for the tons of pro gifs we see all over these forums. 95-99% have a substantial forward move . Hank Aaron the true HR king IMO, had a massive forward move( that’s the power source, the main one anyway). More importantly , he was clean and and didn’t look like a bobblehead( sorry Barry).

It doesn't move on that swing...how many other swings of his have you seen to make an assessment that his head never moves like that, and that wasn't just a one time thing?

As far as using the adjectives of "a little", and/or "substantial" I think might get us into sketchy ground unless we each post what we think is "a little" vs "substantial". Are any of these "substantial"?....

....because I say they are not, and that all of them show just "a little" head movement in all of them.

Your gonna go with a colleg coach? Instead of a gaxillion gifs and 2 mlb hitting consultants( Latta, Tewks)??? Because it fits your model? Might want to rethink that one.

Um, which "college coach" are you talking abgut? The Houston Astros won the "WS" last year, and Dave Hudgens was their "hitting coach". When I was a personal invitee of his to his place in Phoenix (I'm in SoCal) to become one of his first of 12 instructors in his certification course in 2003 he was the hitting coach for the Oakland A's, and he's been employed other MLB teams consistently from that time. Ted coached the Washington Senators, and Texas Rangers back in the day. What MLB teams has Latta, and/or Tewks been employed by if you think they supposedly trump these two MLB coaches?

Now with that, I'm not taking anything away from either one of them, wish them the best, and said that I like a lot of what each teach. Just an FYI for you....I've known, talked with, emailed, PMed, and exchanged text with Bobby on many many occasion when he first came onto these boards, and was learning this stuff like all of us...and believe it or not, he and I have very similar hitting philosophies, and teaching modalities, even if we don't use the same exact words all the time. And just so we're clear, I'm not taking any credit for Tewk's success...he worked his butt off in the cage, online, in the video room, and with hitters...and I couldn't be more pleased with the success he's attained from it. Good guy, and very good instructor for sure.

As far as ‘hit the ball with your back hip’. Your description was one of ‘direction’ instead of a hand path. Not of timing . I do believe the release of the whole backside is ‘GO’. Shift then swing is nothing more then no resistance with the backside .’ The swing is in the shift ‘ is my preferred description.

Mine too, and why I've used that cue with great success (as have many others who've tried/used it as has been already stated here, and elsewhere in the past)...in that it keeps the hitter from shifting too early, and getting onto their front side prematurely amongst other things...that I'll not get into since you already oppose it so much, it would just be a waste of both our time, and energy

Good exchange MB. Thank you.

Yes, agreed, and thank you as well.

Here’s my kid hitting same location as your student. Mind you a BP swing. But at game speed and situation meaning she doesn’t know where the pitch will be . Hit about 230 ft . She’s only 130 lbs. Mind you not perfect. But the fundamentals are solid imo.

https://youtu.be/m-d2jXou2as

Here’s miggy for comparison . Same location.

https://youtu.be/t2t9KqZj8CM

I'm not going to get too critical, but will just say that that is the "Shift THEN Swing" mechanic that I thought you said you didn't like...and know exactly why you used one of Miggy's HRD swings, and not a game swing. Your DD looks very athletic, and has a nice flow in her swing, but from that one BP clip...I'd say there's very little adjustability in those mechanics she's displaying there.

Here’s a student of mine after 2 lessons. Just front toss. But notice the hand path , the extension , the release. No that’s not me.

https://youtu.be/lc9Mses-Hq0

Better weight transfer/shift, but she pushes her arms, and hands forward to the ball, and hits it too far out front, thus losing or really not using her lower half efficiently in the swing to maximize her power...JMHO obviously.

Respectfully ,
Work

Ps. If there are typos etc. sorry. Longest post I’ve ever written . Feel like I’m in school. Lol

Respectfully as well,
MD

Ps. No worries about typos, and nice job on the long post....I give you an "A-" on it. Lol!!

 

[rdbass]

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Well.... While I do believe there are a number of similarities between pitching and hitting, there are also some differences as well. When it comes to firing things during the pitching motion, the whole 'drive mechanics' thing comes into play... While I am enjoying the overall discussion, I'm not sure that is something I want to digest at the moment.

https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/18135-drive-mechanics-2.html#post229912

FP, all I was getting at was that it's a cue as in this part of its definition....

cue1 | kyo͞o |
noun
• Psychology a feature of something perceived that is used in the brain's interpretation of the perception: expectancy is communicated both by auditory and visual cues.

verb (cues, cueing or cuing, cued) [with object]
• act as a prompt or reminder: have a list of needs and questions on paper to cue you.

...and nothing more (ie. mentally focusing on "firing" the rear hip at a target, and not the physiological process of what makes that "firing" happen).

And yes, geez...I clicked on that link, saw two of Newton's laws, and all of the other stuff...and knew right away that was not at all what I was talking about or inferring.