Turn the barrel???

[BadMonkeys]

Here's another way to explain it.

jbooth,
What is the software you are showing there? Do you have any other titles you might use or know of any websites with similar interactive tools?
Thanks

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

"VERY" different? How so? Please detail what you think is so VERY different.

If you think I'm twisting my foot inward, you are mistaken. The heel comes up after I push, and the direction of the heel is toward the camera. My foot doesn't rotate until after the push.

Of course my swing isn't as good as his, but the attempted movements are the same.

JB, I already listed several differences. But I am curious about the following. Place a mouse on the lead shoulder at the first frame. Why does yours look like you are throwing your shoulder into the front side?

 

[jbooth]

yea but the difference is that you have never shown a swing that comes close....I have tried all of the zany stuff out there...and the only time I came close to getting off a decent swing was by using the turn the barrel method that you say doesnt work...

But, I will give you credit for showing your work...most of you out there don't even bother...

The difference (for those out there who care) between throwing the barrel and turning it is - the turning happens immediately....throwing is a hold and throw late method....

So, when MLB players say they lag the barrel and then throw it, which is synonymous with "hold and throw", they are all wrong. They should stop saying and doing that, and follow your method.

 

[redhotcoach]

So, when MLB players say they lag the barrel and then throw it, which is synonymous with "hold and throw", they are all wrong. They should stop saying and doing that, and follow your method.

Maybe we are all going about it wrong with all these video clips and gifs. We should all start posting audio excerpts.

 

[jbooth]

JB, I already listed several differences. But I am curious about the following. Place a mouse on the lead shoulder at the first frame. Why does yours look like you are throwing your shoulder into the front side?

Probably because my head and whole torso are shifting forward as I go to heel plant. Upton stays back better.

You and others always miss the main point being made and start focusing on minutia.

My point was to show the basic fundamentals. I push into heel plant. Not exactly as he does, but it's the same fundamental move.

I coil and then push. It could be better.

I hold the hands back, not exactly as him, but the fundamental is there.

I turn the hips before the shoulders, not exactly as him, but same fundamental.

I keep the barrel up and back, almost exactly as he does, as the back elbow drops.

I use the hands to throw the barrel directly at the ball, not exactly as he does, but fundamentally the same.

I got lousy extension. But, I could fix that with practice. I could make it all better with practice, but I probably never would mirror him.

It's not MLB quality, but it is MLB pattern.

Why can't you get the main points? Why do you lose sight of the major components. You do that in your critiques of others also. You seem to get lost in minor details, that IMO, don't mean much especially to kids just learning.

I'm not doing something drastically different, such as; shoving the arms to extension prior to contact, or chopping down across the ball's path, or casting the barrel, or turning as a unit, or dumping the barrel, or sweeping, etc. etc.

If I was doing one or more of those things, then I would agree if you said it was VERY different.

It's dang close IMO.

 

[jbooth]

Maybe we are all going about it wrong with all these video clips and gifs. We should all start posting audio excerpts.

What does that mean? I've seen Justin Upton on TV a couple of years ago, on a local TV station, talking about his swing.

He specifically demonstrated and described verbally, how he wanted to get the hands and barrel up into a position where he could then throw the barrel down at the ball. Then he proceeded to show it slowly.

Never showed or mentioned anything about the hands, other than, take them and the barrel to the ball.

Very similar to what Bonds showed Finch.

 

[softballphreak]

Probably because my head and whole torso are shifting forward as I go to heel plant. Upton stays back better.

You and others always miss the main point being made and start focusing on minutia.

My point was to show the basic fundamentals. I push into heel plant. Not exactly as he does, but it's the same fundamental move.

I coil and then push. It could be better.

I hold the hands back, not exactly as him, but the fundamental is there.

I turn the hips before the shoulders, not exactly as him, but same fundamental.

I keep the barrel up and back, almost exactly as he does, as the back elbow drops.

I use the hands to throw the barrel directly at the ball, not exactly as he does, but fundamentally the same.

I got lousy extension. But, I could fix that with practice. I could make it all better with practice, but I probably never would mirror him.

It's not MLB quality, but it is MLB pattern.

Why can't you get the main points? Why do you lose sight of the major components. You do that in your critiques of others also. You seem to get lost in minor details, that IMO, don't mean much especially to kids just learning.

I'm not doing something drastically different, such as; shoving the arms to extension prior to contact, or chopping down across the ball's path, or casting the barrel, or turning as a unit, or dumping the barrel, or sweeping, etc. etc.

If I was doing one or more of those things, then I would agree if you said it was VERY different.

It's dang close IMO.

There, the answer to your post on another thread. You don't "whirl it", you throw it. That's a good thing!

 

[The Project]

Jbooth, I have a simple question for you.

Do you believe the biomechanic explanations of a "high level" swing that you always provide are fact, or theories?

I'm just curious because the study of biomechanics is, as all science, based on theories and not facts and is devoid of the truth. I really appreciate you trying to explain and match the high level swing from a biomechanic point of view and I certainly appreciate your passion for it, but the way you state as fact that what you are doing is biomechanically the same as what MLB players are doing is really flawed. Remember, the truth can never really be proved by science.

 

[RayR]

Turning vs throwing is about this:

Turning = torque on the handle early to get the barrel into an arcish path and then arms just have to shorten or lengthen to adjust

Throwing = pulling the handle sans early torque and then applying lots of torque to get the barrel to the ball while the arms are trying to adjust (but much harder to because the early pull creates a predetermined swing path)

Turning = well timed effort (easier)

Throwing = mistimed effort (harder)

It's not unlike pushing someone on a swing - you can push someone much higher with a well timed push with lower effort compared to a mistimed push that would require way more effort...

I did an experiment with a sledge hammer where in one swing I pulled on the handle early (hold and throw) and in the other I torqued the handle early (turning) - the torqued swing produced a cleaner, quicker path then the pull swing....the torqued swing produced a feeling of just holding on compared to the pull swing feeling of too much effort...

When you look at the clip below - Which swing looks like I had more "plate coverage"? Which swing looks like it would only work for one location? Why does one swing look smooth and the other look choppy/snappy?

So, when MLB players say they lag the barrel and then throw it, which is synonymous with "hold and throw", they are all wrong. They should stop saying and doing that, and follow your method.

 

[jbooth]

jbooth,
What is the software you are showing there? Do you have any other titles you might use or know of any websites with similar interactive tools?
Thanks

The software can be reviewed at 3D Musculoskeletal anatomy, Muscle and Motion.com

You have to pay an annual fee to use it. They update it with new exercise motion frequently.