Turn the barrel???

[Cannonball]

FFS, I thought I was the only one on that list. Pstein, I understand Tewks' point but would suggest that when I've worked with a hitter who is struggling, often I have a short time to work with them due to whatever constraints and so, having them look at pictures in frames of their swing or video itself is the only source that gives me feedback that I can verify instantly. Unfortunately for me, my RVP program, along with some others is done for good. I had a virus that wiped out much of my computer. One of my students got this computer up and running today. However, I have to have the entire computer "wiped" next Tuesday. I wonder what RVP will charge me to get a reinstall? Anyway, I like RVP as a resource to look at.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

LOL ... no CB, I try to read everything you write.

 

[jbooth]

JB, the transition between these two frames is very different. To state that they are bio-mechanically the same is to state that another means of describing the swing is in order.

"VERY" different? How so? Please detail what you think is so VERY different.

If you think I'm twisting my foot inward, you are mistaken. The heel comes up after I push, and the direction of the heel is toward the camera. My foot doesn't rotate until after the push.

Of course my swing isn't as good as his, but the attempted movements are the same.

 

[jbooth]

For those that thing these upper bodies are the same

player on right hands move as the shoulders laterally tilt - rear elbow moves as a result of the hands/wrists/forearms turning the barrel and the barrel tip moves quite a bit rearward

player on left hands don't move - shoulders don't tilt (rear shoulder still higher then front) as rear elbow slots on its own as the barrel tip actually moves forward.

I think your analysis is pretty poor. Upton's hands drop more as his shoulder tilts and his elbow drops. At this point in the movement, my hands and shoulder have not yet dropped, but they do right after that frame.

And this is 100% incorrect, "rear elbow moves as a result of the hands/wrists/forearms turning the barrel and the barrel tip moves quite a bit rearward"

There is no forearm wrist action whatsoever in Upton's movement. His hands move down a bit and toward the pitcher, but his ulna/radius angles do not change one bit.

 

[jbooth]

There's something else about JB's upper that has caught my eye. Look at his hand set and the way it works. He is literally twisting the bat. His bottom wrist is setting up to pull the knob while his top hand tries to flatten(go palm up) before the barrel has even moved
Rear elbow is then driven into the backside of his rib cage where it can't work efficiently. The barrel is stuck and spinning is required to get it to contact. Not picking at you JB but look closely and you will see what I have pointed out.

I disagree with your analysis. Yes, my style is to turn the top palm toward the pitcher as the back elbow drops. Albert Pujols does the same thing. This also helps keep the barrel UP and lag it behind.

In fact, doing this helps PREVENT what you say I'm doing. I'm trying NOT to turn the palm up too soon, or move the barrel rearward.

I was putting emphasis on keeping the barrel up and throwing it directly down. I do agree that I got a little tense and didn't let the hands go. I over-did snapping the hands and getting the top hand through, and didn't let the hands go.

The point is; I agree that there are minor issues and refinements that need to be done to my swing, but fundamentally I am doing the same thing as Upton. Just not as well.

You and others seem to think it is worlds apart. It isn't MLB quality, but it IS MLB fundamentals.

I wasn't trying to show that my swing is as good as Upton's, I was showing that I can swing with the same fundamentals, which are IMO, not the same fundamentals proposed here by several people.

 

[jbooth]

[IMG]http://oi44.tinypic.com/2ymx4pf.jpg[/IMG]

Is the wrist action in the top gif what Hi believes in?

Yes it is. Here is the HI owner teaching it to some unfortunate youngster.

Quite the opposite of what Barry demonstrates above.

 

[tjintx]

I disagree with your analysis. Yes, my style is to turn the top palm toward the pitcher as the back elbow drops. Albert Pujols does the same thing. This also helps keep the barrel UP and lag it behind.

In fact, doing this helps PREVENT what you say I'm doing. I'm trying NOT to turn the palm up too soon, or move the barrel rearward.

I was putting emphasis on keeping the barrel up and throwing it directly down. I do agree that I got a little tense and didn't let the hands go. I over-did snapping the hands and getting the top hand through, and didn't let the hands go.

The point is; I agree that there are minor issues and refinements that need to be done to my swing, but fundamentally I am doing the same thing as Upton. Just not as well.

You and others seem to think it is worlds apart. It isn't MLB quality, but it IS MLB fundamentals.

I wasn't trying to show that my swing is as good as Upton's, I was showing that I can swing with the same fundamentals, which are IMO, not the same fundamentals proposed here by several people.

OK JB, I have no doubt you can see your faults and comparing you to a MLB hitter borders on ridiculous. I think defining "fundamentals" would go a long way as readers here in the technical forum are going to look closely and understanding that you can't possibly emulate a high level swing must be factored in. I cannot swing in an elite pattern either. I have tried. I can see it, but I can't quite get it when I take cuts out back in the cage although I have gotten much better in recent months.

 

[jbooth]

OK JB, I have no doubt you can see your faults and comparing you to a MLB hitter borders on ridiculous. I think defining "fundamentals" would go a long way as readers here in the technical forum are going to look closely and understanding that you can't possibly emulate a high level swing must be factored in. I cannot swing in an elite pattern either. I have tried. I can see it, but I can't quite get it when I take cuts out back in the cage although I have gotten much better in recent months.

Fair enough.

Yes, I have tried many times to look like them. Trying different things and taking video.

This is the closest I have come to making the arm/hands/and bat movement look like them. And, the difference was from taking Bonds literally by trying to get the top hand through, and throw the barrel directly down at the ball.

I agree that I don't have it smoothed out and locked in, but I was showing that doing what MLB hitters SAY they do, got me closer to the correct swing. And, the bio-mechanical movements that I was using to make it happen, are the ones that I have said that the MLB hitters use.

 

[jbooth]

OK JB, I have no doubt you can see your faults and comparing you to a MLB hitter borders on ridiculous. I think defining "fundamentals" would go a long way as readers here in the technical forum are going to look closely and understanding that you can't possibly emulate a high level swing must be factored in. I cannot swing in an elite pattern either. I have tried. I can see it, but I can't quite get it when I take cuts out back in the cage although I have gotten much better in recent months.

The fundamentals is that they;

try to keep the barrel UP (not pull it rearward),
they try to keep the hands and barrel back until their shoulders start to turn, and then they snap/throw the barrel at the ball.

They shift their weight by pushing off of the back foot, and turn the hips before they throw the barrel.

Not a complete list, but the basics.

 

[BadMonkeys]

RayR, would this be close?

The player looks like Brianna Cherry. If it is she hits for a high average at a high level. Has anyone bothered to attempt to contact her to offer the clip and ask what she is thinking or trying to feel when she does this? Was it taught or did she just find the feel on her own? Is this a typical warm up or on deck move of hers?