The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[Softball scholar]

At the beginning of innings no runners on base especially at CWS with extra umpires umpires the first and third base umpires can EASILY see what the pitcher is doing.

Maybe it will be like the hockey playoffs, the refs start calling more penalties once the playoffs start. Maybe at the NCAA tournament, umps might start dinging Barnhill. You have an extra ump, and more people are watching the umps. I just don't see it happening unless blatant. Illegal pitching is becoming like 3 steps in NBA, If you don't call it, it becomes part of the game.

 

[Comp]

agreed I thought the base umpire had foot detaching from plate but I would refer this to one of our reside umps [MENTION=426]Comp[/MENTION] you out there?

All umpires on field can call illegal pitches. Simply due to their various locations some umpires can see certain infractions better than others. Generally speaking, the plate umpire has the hands and the pitching lane. The base umpires have the feet, rotation violations etc. In 3 man when U3 is behind 2nd base, they can also call the lane violation.

 

[grcsftbll]

Probably a pitcher with a little leap who comes a bit off the ground isn't getting all that much of an advantage out of it. Barnhill gets a huge advantage from all her illegal stuff and it isn't remotely easy to miss. Very, very obvious to anyone with eyes that function.

 

[Rocketech1]

So here's my proposal: why not give coaches 2 or 3 video illegal pitch challenges a game. And if your challenge is correct, than you get to keep it for the next challenge. You can do this by having a couple of cameras with different angles with focus on the feet. Have a little flag like football or you just ask like in tennis. You cant do this at low levels, but at the NCAA level should have the resources to pull this off. You could even have an umpire pitching specialist to make the evaluation. I think were asking to much of the umpires to make this call under current system. Until we go video replay in a game, were never going to solve this problem.

The problem with illegal pitching mechanics is that it is ingrained for years by young pitchers before they even get to college. And even in college how many D1, D2, and D3 games have the ability for instant replay? Leaping and replanting is a systematic epidemic that is happening at all levels of the game not just by the pitchers in the Power 5 conferences. Unless you a) assign "Pitching Umpire" to each and every game that is played from 10U through NPF or b) change the rules to allow leaping and replanting like the men's game (which is a lot more feasible option), this illegal pitching epidemic will continue....The umpires cannot enforce it consistently and every time because if they did, it would completely shut the games down throughout the country, killing the sport for many years ...

 

[4 girl's dad]

ESPN is not going to let IP's happen. It would ruin the show for them.

 

[riseball]

The problem with illegal pitching mechanics is that it is ingrained for years by young pitchers before they even get to college. And even in college how many D1, D2, and D3 games have the ability for instant replay? Leaping and replanting is a systematic epidemic that is happening at all levels of the game not just by the pitchers in the Power 5 conferences. Unless you a) assign "Pitching Umpire" to each and every game that is played from 10U through NPF or b) change the rules to allow leaping and replanting like the men's game (which is a lot more feasible option), this illegal pitching epidemic will continue....The umpires cannot enforce it consistently and every time because if they did, it would completely shut the games down throughout the country, killing the sport for many years ...

All it takes to pitch legally is the effort to do so. So long as there are enablers making excuses it will be continue to be a problem. Vigorously enforce the rules and the issue will go away within 2 weeks. Those that cannot or will not pitch legally can then take up soccer. The game will be better without the enablers and their snowflakes.

#keepitat17

 

[Rick Pauly]

Thought some may find my interaction with one of the influencers of our game.....to date I have not received a response. See my latest dialog below:

With crowhopping the acid test is where is the ball when they bear weight again from the initial drive. All men crowhoppers and ones like Barnhill....the ball is at approximately 2 o'clock (has not gone over the top of the circle yet).......of course their second weight bearing is on the original push foot.....vs. a leap and drag (legal) pitcher the ball is at approximately 10 o'clock and the weight is on the stride foot. It is a very easy thing to see......not sure why it is so blatantly ignored.

I've heard one of my all time favorites, Joan Joyce, comment on how she thinks that pitchers can be just as effective throwing from the "old slingshot style" vs. leap and drag. Well, the crowhoppers are basically throwing from the "old slingshot style" except they have shortened the distance and added a ton of forward momentum with the leap off the rubber.

The key to the whole debate is not the legality of the leap vs no leap....it is the shortening of the distance created by the second replant of the push foot. It is a huge advantage in many ways for a crowhopper. As we both know, one of the keys to a great riseball is the degree of upward release angle......well, because of the shortened distance, the crowhoppers upward release angle is greater...thus more illusion of rising. It is kind of like taking a 3rd level riseball and now saying it is in the strike zone. So, the shortened distance=less time for gravity to pull the ball down + the increase angle + the fact that someone like Barnhill throws 68-70 mph it is truly the ultimate riseball....but totally unfair to the hitters.

I would predict that if crowhopping is allowed that within 3 years the women's pitching distance will be moved back to 46 feet.........bingo....now we have the men's game.

I really think it would be better to differentiate the women's game from the men's game.



Here is a related excerpt from major league baseball that just came out.....and the link to the reason:

On Thursday, MLB and the Major League Baseball Players Association announced seven rule changes that will go into effect for the 2017 season. Here’s one of those changes ...

An addition to Rule 5.07 formalizes an umpire interpretation by stipulating that a pitcher may not take a second step toward home plate with either foot or otherwise reset his pivot foot in his delivery of the pitch. If there is at least one runner on base, then such an action will be called as a balk under Rule 6.02(a). If the bases are unoccupied, then it will be considered an illegal pitch under Rule 6.02(b).

While this might strike you as an unnecessary clarification, it’s pretty much in response to the unorthodox delivery of reliever Carter Capps, now of the Padres.


https://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k577/knightsb99/carter_capps2_zpsywigrdqd.gif




Rick

 

[obbay]

While this might strike you as an unnecessary clarification, it’s pretty much in response to the unorthodox delivery of reliever Carter Capps, now of the Padres.

Wow! That guy is employing Fastpitch footwork, only with the replant!
Fascinating!

 

[Softball scholar]

The problem with illegal pitching mechanics is that it is ingrained for years by young pitchers before they even get to college. And even in college how many D1, D2, and D3 games have the ability for instant replay?

Im not talking about an extravagant instant replay for the whole field. Im just saying have a camera on the pitcher hooked up to a lap top. All they have to do is setup a fixed camera, and film the pitcher. If coach challenges, the ump goes and looks at the laptop. You could check the leap, crow hop and lane violations. I still think its very difficult to identify illegal pitches with the naked eye.

 

[riseball]

The problem with illegal pitching mechanics is that it is ingrained for years by young pitchers before they even get to college. And even in college how many D1, D2, and D3 games have the ability for instant replay?

Im not talking about an extravagant instant replay for the whole field. Im just saying have a camera on the pitcher hooked up to a lap top. All they have to do is setup a fixed camera, and film the pitcher. If coach challenges, the ump goes and looks at the laptop. You could check the leap, crow hop and lane violations. I still think its very difficult to identify illegal pitches with the naked eye.

It is 2017 and this would cost less than $100 per field to implement. Experience shows us that the mere presence of a camera will instantly modify behavior. As such challenges would be few and far between as there would be an "epidemic" of legal pitching.