Swing Plane and upright position at contact

[FP26]

I would have liked to see him demo the drill with a full swing.........

Is this drill not essentially the Babe Ruth Drill?

My understanding is they are very similar. The difference I notice is the orientation of the feet. In the Babe Ruth drill, the feet are turned more in the direction of the catcher (sort of...). This drill doesn't require that same orientation. This is also a drill I use quite regularly. When used properly I do feel it helps hitters get a better understanding of the separation from the back hip to the hands, and helps them learn how to control their move out. As with any other drill, this one can also be done incorrectly.

 

[julray]

Sounds like you are getting it. Congrats!

Bat lag, if that is truly what you wish to work on, comes from a mechanic performed at the start of the swing. You in a sense "lose the arm wrestling match" for an instant as the swing starts. I can explain it further if there is interest .... but that isn't your daughter's concern at the moment.

I know mate, Thanks for laying everything out for me! In the meantime I bet there are some on here who would like to here your Bat lag Explanation. I would like to reference it later as well.

 

[Shawn]

Here's another good swing,

I'll get back to you shortly. Just one thing about the FBC and it's something I noticed a long time ago, hitters are always working forward. Good hitters anyways.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here's another good swing,

I'll get back to you shortly. Just one thing about the FBC and it's something I noticed a long time ago, hitters are always working forward. Good hitters anyways.

Good hitters don't stay back, they go forward.

 

[Shawn]

Good hitters don't stay back, they go forward.

Agree. The hitter in question although isn't working forward, no FBC. She is shifting and swinging at the same time (rotating and shifting at the same time). The 2 clips above of Pujols and Nomar are working forward, FBC.

 

[Buttermaker]

This was an outside pitch .... and hence the elbow should have more clearance as it passes by the rear hip. That said ... it doesn't have near the clearance exhibited in SL's daughter's demo, which if actually learned would kill inside/outside plate coverage.

While I agree with you to a point - the main point is that the rear elbow does not follow the torso. The forearms turn the barrel and are connected to the rear leg and not the torso/shoulders

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

While I agree with you to a point - the main point is that the rear elbow does not follow the torso. The forearms turn the barrel and are connected to the rear leg and not the torso/shoulders

Question for you then ... when you speak of "pull backs", what is being pulled back? During this "pull back", is there a feel of a muscle elongation stretch, and if so, what general area of the body is this stretch located?

 

[bullethead]

It seems that you understand that your DD's current swing won't scale and her past successful results are in spite of her mechanics. If so, you should also understand that no little tweaks or tee model change are going to be of significant long term help. Most who have been here at DFP for a while have been where you are now - be patient, less sensitive, and risk taking a backwards step today to build the foundation of a mechanically sound swing that won't limit your DD's future success.

Great post. Just like when you start playing golf w/o any formal instruction. At first you shoot in the 120's, get it down to 100, then you break a hundred, then 90 but cant get thru 85. personally, you think you're making great strides. Then you play with someone that is really good and he watches you swing - and says "if you want to get "good" you should take some lessons from a cert. instructor". So you're thinking a tweak here or there from this instructor and I will be Mr Scratch Golfer. Wrongo. Instructor breaks it to you gently that you will have to completely tear down current swing and reprogram. Changing muscle memory is hard and time consuming. Scores rocket back to the 100's. (i.e Daughter goes from hitting top half of line-up to bottom half or maybe riding pine). Most people decide golf/hitting/whatever is silly at this point and abandon ship - don't be most people. That first time you really pinch down on a golf ball and it "zings" instead of pings, that first time your daughter really barrels up a ball and it jumps like you have never seen it jump - the proverbial "a ha" moment - you/they will get hooked, then develop a level commitment like never before. You will start duplicating more frequently on the range (or in the cage) yet fail miserably to bring it into the actual games. Keep plugging away - eventually it will come.

My advice - do some reading, looking at a lot if swing clips and become your daughter's hitting advisor. Find an instructor that shares your views, it's helpful to hear the same message in a different set of words.

While you are retooling the swing, you need to, concurrently, be making her as physically strong as she can be. Think "core". I don't think you can execute a higher level swing without the physical side being developed as well.

Lots of different ways to describe the swing and mechanics, which if taken in their correct context are probably correct. Understanding the correct context is what's so frustrating/hard - at least it was for me. Eventually you have to settle on some things and roll with it.

At the end of the day, the swing is a hand eye coordinated event for me - so we spent some time on the "hands" and how they articulate during a swing. Then we put that aside and focused on the lower half. In my world, the center of mass moves from "back" to "middle" and the way we get there is through personal interpretation of FBC, BB/A$$ and the MOVE - from hours of reading that stuff, coupled with my own feelings in the rear leg/hip from hitting golf balls and tennis balls.

If you talk to either of my kids now, they would both say they don't think about their hands and when they put a poor swing on a ball - they say "I didn't get good coil that time". For my daughter it took about 3 years, my son has made pretty good progress in about a year. My daughter improved rapidy when we added strength and conditioning to the equation. When I saw the benefits, I started my son on a strength program concurrently with the start of retooling his swing. FWIW. Good luck in your journey - it's a lot of fun.

 

[Buttermaker]

Question for you then ... when you speak of "pull backs", what is being pulled back? During this "pull back", is there a feel of a muscle elongation stretch, and if so, what general area of the body is this stretch located?

Lower back and scap. What I am saying is that the pullbacks create the space needed for the triangle to be turned through.

 

[jryan15]

Great post. Just like when you start playing golf w/o any formal instruction. At first you shoot in the 120's, get it down to 100, then you break a hundred, then 90 but cant get thru 85. personally, you think you're making great strides. Then you play with someone that is really good and he watches you swing - and says "if you want to get "good" you should take some lessons from a cert. instructor". So you're thinking a tweak here or there from this instructor and I will be Mr Scratch Golfer. Wrongo. Instructor breaks it to you gently that you will have to completely tear down current swing and reprogram. Changing muscle memory is hard and time consuming. Scores rocket back to the 100's. (i.e Daughter goes from hitting top half of line-up to bottom half or maybe riding pine). Most people decide golf/hitting/whatever is silly at this point and abandon ship - don't be most people. That first time you really pinch down on a golf ball and it "zings" instead of pings, that first time your daughter really barrels up a ball and it jumps like you have never seen it jump - the proverbial "a ha" moment - you/they will get hooked, then develop a level commitment like never before. You will start duplicating more frequently on the range (or in the cage) yet fail miserably to bring it into the actual games. Keep plugging away - eventually it will come.

My advice - do some reading, looking at a lot if swing clips and become your daughter's hitting advisor. Find an instructor that shares your views, it's helpful to hear the same message in a different set of words.

While you are retooling the swing, you need to, concurrently, be making her as physically strong as she can be. Think "core". I don't think you can execute a higher level swing without the physical side being developed as well.

Lots of different ways to describe the swing and mechanics, which if taken in their correct context are probably correct. Understanding the correct context is what's so frustrating/hard - at least it was for me. Eventually you have to settle on some things and roll with it.

At the end of the day, the swing is a hand eye coordinated event for me - so we spent some time on the "hands" and how they articulate during a swing. Then we put that aside and focused on the lower half. In my world, the center of mass moves from "back" to "middle" and the way we get there is through personal interpretation of FBC, BB/A$$ and the MOVE - from hours of reading that stuff, coupled with my own feelings in the rear leg/hip from hitting golf balls and tennis balls.

If you talk to either of my kids now, they would both say they don't think about their hands and when they put a poor swing on a ball - they say "I didn't get good coil that time". For my daughter it took about 3 years, my son has made pretty good progress in about a year. My daughter improved rapidy when we added strength and conditioning to the equation. When I saw the benefits, I started my son on a strength program concurrently with the start of retooling his swing. FWIW. Good luck in your journey - it's a lot of fun.

My views are different. I don't think there is a lot of muscle memory involved when the best hitters hit (and throw). Same opinion for hand-eye coordination (although it certainly helps).

When your swing is properly connected up through the leg, back, scap, and with the bat in the hands, swinging the right way is just plain efficient. It just flows from a barrel turn. Once you learn to coil correctly and launch the barrel in a way that does not have slop, does not separate at the waist, and does not involve shoulder rotation, all the sudden you just start squaring everything up. No hand-eye coordination improvements are required. If you do have waist separation or are powering the barrel with the arms or shoulders way in front of the hips, then hand-eye coordination is critical (so is pitch trajectory tracking).

The concepts discussed in this video are nothing short of revolutionary.

Hitting Illustrated Clinic