- May 10, 2010
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Ok I dont think it was a college game, but I cannot find my asa book so you got me. Then I would wager some batting averages need to be reworked.
Scoring question - Fielder's Choice or a hit? Earned or unearned run?
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That would probably include my daughter's batting average before I understood the rule.
I just happened to quote NCAA. It's the same in MLB.
- Apr 19, 2011
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True! You do have to reconstruct the inning and here is an example why. Just say while your inning was still being played===example, with two outs, the runner on third base scored because of a passed ball. For the time being, the run is unearned since the runner should still be at third. If the batter had been thrown out at first on the next pitch to end the inning, it will stay that way. If the batter gets a base hit, which would have scored the runner anyway, the run now becomes earned. There are lots of things you have to keep up with in a game to efficiently score it correctly. That's why most colleges and any professional sport has a statistician. But a good rule of thumb for us coaches (I'm one), is how that runner reached first base, because IMO how that runner reached first, even if my DD was pitching is on her and the team. Any run that crosses my home plate, unless caused by a bad hop or a mistake on a play that should have made Sport Centers Top 10, is a run that is on them(and me) and we let them earn it. I don't like runs coming across my plate earned or not. FYI, Im a defensive coach all the way. I pride myself on defensive ball. I love offense too, but I hate having to out hit my errors on offense and giving the other team extra outs on defense. Sorry, Got way off topic there. Good Night!!!
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Correct.
Addendum - The fact that the fielder chooses to attempt an out at another base or check a runner doesn't automatically make it a fielder's choice. The scorer can judge that the batter would've beaten out the ground ball and therefore score it a hit. That was not the case here, however.
This is probably a cause for a lot of mistakes in scoring. For example, let's say you've got a runner at second and the batter grounds to the SS. If the SS attempts to tag the runner going by, and in doing so allows the batter to beat the throw to first, that would be a fielder's choice, not a hit. The scorer must judge whether the batter would've been safe without the fielder's 'attempt' to get another out. If unsure, the scorer should rule a hit, but should weigh the evidence and not just 'give' a hit. Just more reason to see that travel ball stats are so sketchy. Very few scorers are clear on all the scoring rules.
The level is 14U.
The runner on third
- Got on base with a walk, stole second and advanced to third on a ground out
At 2 outs, batter hits a ground ball to second base. The second baseman hesitates, looking at the runner to first and throws home. The throw was late and both runners were safe. The correct play would have been to first for an easy out to end the inning. It is certainly a mental error.
I believe it is a fielder's choice from the comments above.
But since the inning would have been ended with an easy underhanded toss to get the batter at first base, is the run earned or unearned?
Thanks all.
The runner on third
- Got on base with a walk, stole second and advanced to third on a ground out
At 2 outs, batter hits a ground ball to second base. The second baseman hesitates, looking at the runner to first and throws home. The throw was late and both runners were safe. The correct play would have been to first for an easy out to end the inning. It is certainly a mental error.
I believe it is a fielder's choice from the comments above.
But since the inning would have been ended with an easy underhanded toss to get the batter at first base, is the run earned or unearned?
Thanks all.
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Although from a 14U or older A ball perspective that play is a sign that competition for 2B is wide open!
Official scorer ruling: FC (and E JAD - LOL)
This is where I have difficulty with official scoring "Rules".
In reality, and how it affects the game, the play as originally described, is obviously an ERROR. In the book, it is not.
Similar to an outfield play. We played a team who had a bad right fielder. My DD hit a towering blast. The RF stood under it, misjudged it, and wiffed on the ball. The next at bat, a lined shot, same outfielder ran a long ways to get near, did not have the coordination, and the ball actually bounced off the top of her head. One is an error, the other is not.
Rules are rules. Have no problem with it, because in the end it averages out. Also why coaches do not ALWAYS go by statistics. A super hard hitter may get a bunch of ROE's. Though they don't always book score the same, the affect to the end game result is beneficial. Good coaches know.
In reality, and how it affects the game, the play as originally described, is obviously an ERROR. In the book, it is not.
Similar to an outfield play. We played a team who had a bad right fielder. My DD hit a towering blast. The RF stood under it, misjudged it, and wiffed on the ball. The next at bat, a lined shot, same outfielder ran a long ways to get near, did not have the coordination, and the ball actually bounced off the top of her head. One is an error, the other is not.
Rules are rules. Have no problem with it, because in the end it averages out. Also why coaches do not ALWAYS go by statistics. A super hard hitter may get a bunch of ROE's. Though they don't always book score the same, the affect to the end game result is beneficial. Good coaches know.
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