How many earned runs in this inning?

[_MIA_]

I am arguing with a bunch of pitcher's Dads...of course you are going to say 0 earned runs...

 

[uncdrew]

You don't have to buy into it but most sources which explain how to determine an unearned run explain it exactly that way

Perhaps that could lead to stat corrections the next day, but seems a bit hard to apply in the moment. Maybe it's not.

 

[_MIA_]

Perhaps that could lead to stat corrections the next day, but seems a bit hard to apply in the moment. Maybe it's not.

Sometimes the scorer actually has to wait till the inning is over to get it correct because of this reconstruction.

 

[uncdrew]

Somewhat on topic, we're a little puzzled why GameChanger doesn't assign the winning and losing pitchers. Seems it should be smart enough to do so.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

I am arguing with a bunch of pitcher's Dads...of course you are going to say 0 earned runs...

You'd see why I pulled my hair out if you watched my daughter's HS game yesterday. Seven errors in the field behind her led to a lot of unearned runs. And just to see that I wasn't playing favorites, I checked the other team's feed for clarification. They only had six errors but the same amount of unearned runs. And our starting catcher couldn't throw out the trash right now. There were nine stolen bases.

 

[Rolling Hard]

OK, so I am rarely stumped by a scoring situation, but I'm not sure about this one. All runners who scored marked with (R).

B1 - Walk
B2 - Walk (R - Scored on B6 walk)
B3 - Strike out
B4 - Comebacker to pitcher. Good throw to first, muffed by F3. Ball trickles away. B1 comes around third and is sent home. F3 throws to F2, out at home. (R - Scored on B7 Double)
B5 - Walk (R - Scored on B7 Double)
B6 - Walk
B7 - Double (The pitcher would probably say it was an error on the CF, but the official scorer is calling it a hit)
B8 - Walk
B9 - Strike out

So, first, let's ignore the control issues for a moment.

Here's where I'm stuck: The second out of the inning should have been the routine 1-3 play. But because F3 committed the error, that runner was safe (so her run is definitely unearned). Normally, that would be the end of unearned runs for the inning because of the strike out, missed out on the error, and then the out at home. BUT, the runner only tried for home because of the error. If that error doesn't get made, the runner on third never tries for home.

Logically, those two plays "cancel out." There is no way to think the defense could have gotten two outs on that play. The out at home happened only because the out at first did not happen.

So, do we have 2 earned runs (B2 and B5) or do we have 0 earned runs (because we count the strike out, the F3 error, and then the out at home, thus making subsequent runs as unearned)?

Hopefully this is a 8U rec ball game so who cares how many earned runs?

 

[DNeeld]

I don't buy in to your reverse engineering errorless inning construct. So I will not be answering the question.

At the clinic we attended, reconstruct the inning with no errors was given as the standard. Of course, it was also stated to give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher when determining earned or unearned runs.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Okay, I just ran that situation through Game Changer, and the result always comes up as all three runs being unearned. Maybe it's the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. Maybe it's a quirk similar to why you can't assume the double play. Either way, both programs have them as unearned.

Just curious what happens if instead of throwing the runner out at home the runner that reached via error is thrown out at second?

 

[canyonjoe]

Just curious what happens if instead of throwing the runner out at home the runner that reached via error is thrown out at second?

I would then say all the runs are earned as you replay the inning

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

Interesting. I can see why that would be. If you view the error and the out at home as two separate events, I agree with iScore. Hypothetically, if you have say a fly ball to the OF. OF drops the ball, but then throws out the runner trying to tag and score somehow, I would consider that two separate plays. The runner was going to run regardless of whether the ball was caught or not, so the error (which allowed the batter-runner to reach base) was not relevant to the second play. But because the runner only ran when the ball trickled away from F3 on the error, it just seems like the pitcher is catching a break she doesn't deserve.

I need to figure out how to search MLB PBP databases for this particular play. I'm sure it's happened at least once.

I agree. It just when stats don't tell the truth. If the out is made the runner isn't thrown out at the plate, and she actually gives up 3 earned runs.