Manipulating the Barrel Early with Hands

[Work=wins]

 

[Eric F]

Can't argue with that.. always seeking knowledge. And you believe this is the result of the hitter focusing to TTB with hands/forearms? That was a rhetorical question, I know what your answer is. This is a very independent/isolated type movement... why don't the pros talk about it? I wonder if they use their hands to find direction while the body pulls.. IDK the answer, just wondering out loud and it still puzzles me that the pros don't even know they are doing this. Like I said it's a very focused type movement..??

Evolution of instruction and analysis is changing the landscape. (IMO, YMMV)

Miguel Cabrera recently talked about his swing approach, and mentioned wanting to get palm-up/palm-down as quickly as possible. To me, that's another way to talk about torquing the handle.

 

[Cornbread]

Evolution of instruction and analysis is changing the landscape. (IMO, YMMV)

Miguel Cabrera recently talked about his swing approach, and mentioned wanting to get palm-up/palm-down as quickly as possible. To me, that's another way to talk about torquing the handle.

So does a focused hand movement torque the handle or is it the rear elbow slotting or the shoulders tilting or the torso stretching or all of the above

 

[FP26]

Based on this ^^^ diagram, once the barrel is in line with the direction of force (red line), the force will no longer continue to aid rotation around the pivot point. It will only continue to rotate due to the momentum created in the first part of its movement, unless additional forces are added later in the rotation.

Since we want the barrel to rotate from its starting point to contact point in the shortest time possible, adding force in the direction of rotation (blue arrow) at the very beginning will increase the rate of acceleration, and decrease the time of rotation.View attachment 14236

In other words, early bat speed... or more precisely, early barrel acceleration. Nice description/explanation @Eric F

 

[Eric F]

So does a focused hand movement torque the handle or is it the rear elbow slotting or the shoulders tilting or the torso stretching or all of the above

IMO...They all work together. That said, I prefer to talk about the elbows working together (turn the triangle) rather than just the rear elbow. For my DD, learning how to get the front elbow working up was an important step.

 

[julray]

In other words, early bat speed... or more precisely, early barrel acceleration. Nice description/explanation @Eric F

Thanks, I do all the work, Eric gets the kudos... Sounds like my current job, LOL. JK

 

[fanboi22]

Based on this ^^^ diagram, once the barrel is in line with the direction of force (red line), the force will no longer continue to aid rotation around the pivot point. It will only continue to rotate due to the momentum created in the first part of its movement, unless additional forces are added later in the rotation.

Since we want the barrel to rotate from its starting point to contact point in the shortest time possible, adding force in the direction of rotation (blue arrow) at the very beginning will increase the rate of acceleration, and decrease the time of rotation.View attachment 14236

I like this view of things. One question i have is on the whip portion of the swing, or the release as some call it. You mention that the force will no longer continue, but isn't that when whip takes place then? you get early acceleration and force to get the hands to a point where the rest of the action is the whip? I am more curious how that happens, as i think with an around the body swing, the whip wont happen. Is the action needed at this point the 'out from'?

i would be curious if there is anything like in golf, the robot swing analysis, that would show that point of action. Maybe i am out of line with this thinking. But it makes sense to me to get the early barrel acceleration so the hands can get to this point quicker and 'release' /whip the barrel. There has to be some physics as to the best location to have that happen, with how much turn and how far the hands have to travel. Maybe a little like fly fishing, if you miss your mark you whip the fly off. But that would actually be good for a swing.

 

[fanboi22]

i guess this kind of shows what i was asking about. i like this gif.

 

[julray]

IMO...They all work together. That said, I prefer to talk about the elbows working together (turn the triangle) rather than just the rear elbow. For my DD, learning how to get the front elbow working up was an important step.

This will be a big step for my DD as well.. I don't mind the cue TTT(turn the triangle).. I can feel and see that, that is a tangible teaching point for me.. I have never been able to torque the handle, so how can I teach that..?

The pvc contraption will help with TTT for my DD, focus on keeping the distance the same between elbows as she TTT. The result will be working the elbow up, instead of wrapping it around her waist.

 

[fanboi22]

This shows the barrel getting up to speed when the end of the bat points at the catcher, and the hands dont reach max speed until out front more.

i would still see the benefit in helping the barrel get started instead of waiting for the hand path to take it there. I can see the combination of the two making peak acceleration.